Designer & Fashion Insiders Behavior (PLEASE READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING)

[Benn98]

 

[eugenius]

What am I missing, Benn98? I can't view IG posts here.

 

[fashionista-ta]

It's Fern Mallis's 'standing' ticket.

I totally see a problem with the Gucci unless it came in 15 different colors.

Regarding the current blackface controversies in Virginia and other parts of the south ... I may be confused, but my perspective for right now is, people are supposed to quit their jobs because of something clueless and insensitive they did when very young? Doesn't it matter more what they did when they weren't participating in a dance contest? Is someone who's actively suppressed the vote, but never once worn blackface, better than someone who once dressed up as Michael Jackson? With so much rampant racism to punish (and so much going unpunished), I feel like we are focusing on the wrong things ...

 

[dsamg]

Shameful.

Look at this and get a clue. And anyone else who doesn’t understand how painful the imagery of blackface is needs to look at this and get a clue too.

A very interesting video, thank you for posting.

But I do think that Americans sometimes jump to extremes with criticising those around the world who don't know large aspects of their history. I wouldn't have immediately recognised this or the Prada keychain as being offensive, just as I am sure many Americans would not be well-versed on every aspect of Australian history.

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ History with regard to slavery and colonialism (and dehumanization of Africans) is not exclusively owned by Americans. Much of Europe had a hand in shaping this history, including much closer neighbors to Italy than us.

I may not know Australian history, but I know enough not to portray Maori people as animals. That to me is a question of humanity, not a question of cultural awareness. I don't need to know whether I would be the first or the millionth to do it, but I know it should not be done.

 

[Lola701]

^ History with regard to slavery and colonialism (and dehumanization of Africans) is not exclusively owned by Americans. Much of Europe had a hand in shaping this history, including much closer neighbors to Italy than us.

I may not know Australian history, but I know enough not to portray Maori people as animals. That to me is a question of humanity, not a question of cultural awareness. I don't need to know whether I would be the first or the millionth to do it, but I know it should not be done.

But the thing is that the race conversation mainly comes from the USA.

As I said earlier, if nobody in the US never made the connection between blackface and the sweater/balaclava, I would have never thought about it. But now, looking at the image, I cannot not see it.

As a black African & French woman, i’m aware of blackface, i’m aware of a great part of racism in America but Europeans have a different experience with racism...Whether they are blacks (from Africa or French carribean), Arabs or Asian.

There’s a difference between white Europeans and white Americans. Even deeper, we deal differently with Racism in France compared to England or Italy or Portugal.

Education is really needed. Because a lot of that is the result of ignorance rather than hate. When you don’t know about something, you don’t care about it.

I was also interested with what happened with Olivier Rousteing. In his show, he painted white models in white and black models in black to ressemble statues and was criticized for doing black face.

We are in the « cancel » culture when I think we really need to educate people.

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ I definitely agree with your conclusion. I see racism as being about ignorance, poor 'culture' shall we say, and fear of the other. I can look back in my own life and see that I've come a ways. I was always accepting of people different than me, and this was modeled for me too, but I can remember laughing at what I now realize were racist jokes told by family members--then I just thought they were funny.

There's a process of education that we pretty much all need all the time.

But the caricatures? I realized there was something wrong with those when I was about 4 years old. It really doesn't require sophisticated thinking.

 

[Benn98]

What am I missing, Benn98? I can't view IG posts here.

Yeah, if you haven't seen it yet, some show at NYFW had the temerity to give Fern Mallis a 'standing' ticket, and she posted it online with the caption 'I don't think so!' The comments are too funny though. 'Bet it's a millennial who did it', 'Someone's getting fired today'

 

[Mody]

So apparently Bruce Weber is shooting Cam models now

 

[Lax89]

But the thing is that the race conversation mainly comes from the USA.

As I said earlier, if nobody in the US never made the connection between blackface and the sweater/balaclava, I would have never thought about it. But now, looking at the image, I cannot not see it.

As a black African & French woman, i’m aware of blackface, i’m aware of a great part of racism in America but Europeans have a different experience with racism...Whether they are blacks (from Africa or French carribean), Arabs or Asian.

There’s a difference between white Europeans and white Americans. Even deeper, we deal differently with Racism in France compared to England or Italy or Portugal.

Education is really needed. Because a lot of that is the result of ignorance rather than hate. When you don’t know about something, you don’t care about it.

I was also interested with what happened with Olivier Rousteing. In his show, he painted white models in white and black models in black to ressemble statues and was criticized for doing black face.

We are in the « cancel » culture when I think we really need to educate people.

Black face awareness is strong in France as well now because of all the knowledge coming from the US. French black people face their own discrimination and also try to bring up these issues forward to the French audience.
But it's true that in France, black face is not known by everyone and we are not taught about this in school.

 

[Lola701]

Black face awareness is strong in France as well now because of all the knowledge coming from the US. French black people face their own discrimination and also try to bring up these issues forward to the French audience.
But it's true that in France, black face is not known by everyone and we are not taught about this in school.

Exactly and it’s also quite recent, thanks to social media and platform like YouTube which gives easy access to any kind of information.
And I must say in France it’s a little bit perverse black face also existed in that form but it wasn’t on that degree and it was mainly pre WW2.
A lot of French black people experience with racism from the media started with Banania or Michel Leeb.

We have to call out people when they are wrong but I don’t like this thing that consist in saying « Europeans designers are racist anyway », « The fashion industry is racist anyway » and Spike Lee saying that he will stop wearing Prada until they hired a black designer meanwhile he was in Milan last year invited by Miuccia for a conversation or when he was walking around in Gucci by Dapper Dan. He has access to people of power and instead of having conversation with them, he is playing the social media game.

 

[Benn98]

Spike Lee saying that he will stop wearing Prada until they hired a black designer meanwhile he was in Milan last year invited by Miuccia for a conversation or when he was walking around in Gucci by Dapper Dan. He has access to people of power and instead of having conversation with them, he is playing the social media game.

Right! Like those people demanding that Anna should give the next cover to Noor because of the ID mishap. I mean, obviously it won't happen, but the idea to demand reparations like that is preposterous.

 

[Lax89]

Exactly and it’s also quite recent, thanks to social media and platform like YouTube which gives easy access to any kind of information.
And I must say in France it’s a little bit perverse black face also existed in that form but it wasn’t on that degree and it was mainly pre WW2.
A lot of French black people experience with racism from the media started with Banania or Michel Leeb.

We have to call out people when they are wrong but I don’t like this thing that consist in saying « Europeans designers are racist anyway », « The fashion industry is racist anyway » and Spike Lee saying that he will stop wearing Prada until they hired a black designer meanwhile he was in Milan last year invited by Miuccia for a conversation or when he was walking around in Gucci by Dapper Dan. He has access to people of power and instead of having conversation with them, he is playing the social media game.

Until a few years ago, I didn't see how Banania was racist. I'm 29 and everytime I saw Banania, I had this image that it was exotic.

I totally agree with you. Calling out people is one thing, doing actions is another.
I didn't know this about Spike Lee. It goes to show that celebrity-status & perks are more important than social issues for some matters.

 

[TREVOFASHIONISTO]

So apparently Bruce Weber is shooting Cam models now

source?

 

[Lola701]

Right! Like those people demanding that Anna should give the next cover to Noor because of the ID mishap. I mean, obviously it won't happen, but the idea to demand reparations like that is preposterous.

Social Media is driving people crazy and celebrities are feeling themselves.
Can you imagine if Chinese people demanded for D&G to just hire an Asian designer for their brand if they ever wants to enter their market again?

And about people expecting for Gucci to hire a black designer before buying it..

Where were those people when Ozwald Boateng became the designer of Givenchy? Where were those people when Patrick Robinson became the designer of Paco Rabanne?

People act like they wants to be responsible when in fact, they just want justifications to continue to buy Gucci.

Now I wonder how Kering will handle that and if some models like Alton Mason will continue to support Alessandro.

 

[fashionista-ta]

Here's the article about Spike Lee boycotting Gucci/Prada: Spike Lee Boycotts Gucci and Prada 'Until They Hire Black Designers'

This doesn't seem unreasonable to me. He's not talking about the lead designer, he's talking about a black designer in the room at labels that have been notorious for insensitivity. So it seems reasonable to me to ask them to have some diversity in the room, so perhaps they won't have to apologize again.

 

[dodencebt]

^ Exactly, I see it as a call for diversifying their design teams, not.. Miuccia stepping down to hire Virgil.

 

[Lola701]

Here's the article about Spike Lee boycotting Gucci/Prada: Spike Lee Boycotts Gucci and Prada 'Until They Hire Black Designers'

This doesn't seem unreasonable to me. He's not talking about the lead designer, he's talking about a black designer in the room at labels that have been notorious for insensitivity. So it seems reasonable to me to ask them to have some diversity in the room, so perhaps they won't have to apologize again.

Ok then.
It’s reasonable but as I said earlier, he is a friend of Miuccia Prada and he knows the Pinault very well.
What’s the point of making a social Media post about it.

Maybe Prada and Gucci can hire internally or have a method that could involved their employees from around the world...like a preview of the shows, validated by the teams before showing it to the world. It’s more participative and progressive.

 

[Benn98]

That's only a partial attempt at solving the problem. I'm actually all for affirmative action because at its core it was always supposed to be based on merit, not a tool to elect POC as some sort of spokespersons in marketing. It's a bit unfair to expect that one person or group to represent an entire culture, that's a lot of pressure, I would imagine.
Also, imagine if Lola were sitting on the board who had to approve this jumper. As a POC, she did not see how the jumper could be deemed offensive initially.

I still say it really boils down to education. It's far too easy to just absolve the team of any responsibility. There should almost be an Appreciation and Sensitivity module enforced at every higher institution across the world. Fed up with this 'but I grew up in the Siberian outback, I'm not familiar with XYZ culture.' Fashion is a global vocabulary after all.

Lastly, I know I make the odd mistake, but I'm amazed at Mr Lee's grammar. Especially considering he's such a renowned director. Caps with every word? Those are not headings. Just go all caps and call it a day.

 

[JPineapple]

An "influencer" from México posted a rant -via instastories- about racism in marketing and publicity in the country. Then, he posted a message that was sent by an ex employee of Vogue Mexico (now deleted).

He/She said that Karla Martínez de Salas apparently is "very special" about choosing the models/people for the magazine and the website. She wants diversity but not too much, not too "black", "fat" or even "indigenous". The message said that she uses the phrase "she looks very 'naquita' -a racial slur used in Mexico instead of ghetto or something like that-" when she doesn't like a model.

Ps. I have the screenshots, I promise post them later.