Marc Jacobs F/W 2006.07 New York

[softgrey]

Both the tight and the loose versions? It's impossible to tell from the photos. Is there a better place to get information about the induvidual pieces?

...and Softgrey, the new thread was created because someone suggested it a few pages back but I guess we can just sift through the ump-teen pages here and comment on everything together. No prob.

i didn't bring that thread back over here-
a d&c mod did......
and as ta-ta said...
i think you can se the difference if you look closely enough...

seems caffeine, you are a bit defensive too..
the fact that some people have a working understanding of fashion that goes back more than a couple of seasons should not be seen as negative or a threat imo...

if you aren't interested in that stuff...
then don't respond to those posts...it's that easy...
but if people want to point out things that are very obvious to them...
then it isn't anyone else's place to insult them for it...

this thread is to discuss the collection...
not just to shop from...

 

[Scott]

sorry...
but you ned to go more than 2 seasons back...
marc jacobs basically invented that with his grunge collection...
MARC is the one who started the whole 'tying sleeves around the waist thing'...
and i remember donna doing it a LOT as well...


if anyone was copying- it would be anne sophie back...
who is much newer to the fashion scene...

Actually,Marc was doing silly flannels tied around the waist...wasn't skirts with built in ties. And even if there have been people doing big ties before,never has there been anything as blatant as I see in that particular skirt. And actually I believe it was Rei and Yohji who started the whole big tie thing Let's be specific here,too..there is a really big difference between being influenced and actually copying somebody's ideas. And while the style itself may not be original,at least Ann-Sofie's interpretation was genuine and her "own". What's more, we all know she's got a web site and we all know Marc just loves his research....so think whatever you like...but I still find him the biggest plagarist in the industry.

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ Thanks, Caffeine, I appreciate the offer

Here's a closeup of the skirt I liked on the runway that I'm not sure I like the looks of ... what do you think?

And here's something else I thought quite interesting ... appears to be a perforated nubuck? bootie layered under the shoe ...

And another ... now I see how it's done ... I wasn't sure. So isn't this interesting. There's a certain similarity to spats, and it's pretty clever, isn't it--what a great idea to convert shoes to boots and stay warm on those really cold days ...

And here, this underlayer looks exactly like the Duofolds I sleep in on the coldest nights

 

[softgrey]

scott-the only thing i see similar is the grey colour...
the fabrication, construction and style of the skirts is very different...
anne sophie's is basically a straight skirt with sleeves attached at the waist...
mj's folds and wraps..

*sorry - i don't remember yohji or rei doing that...
but i remember donna doing built in sleeves in the early nineties very clearly.....

i'd love to see an example of rei or yohji's work though...

 

[softgrey]

FYI-the models said the shoes were IMPOSSIBLE to walk in..

 

[Caffeine]

scott-the only thing i see similar is the grey colour...
the fabrication, construction and style of the skirts is very different...
anne sophie's is basically a straight skirt with sleeves attached at the waist...
mj's folds and wraps..

*sorry - i don't remember yohji or rei doing that...
but i remember donna doing built in sleeves in the early nineties very clearly.....

i'd love to see an example of rei or yohji's work though...

JPG did the same on the sleeves. I have a cardigan like that.

 

[Caffeine]

as much as I love Marc Jacobs, I hate the shoes

 

[Caffeine]

ta-ta, I like the skirt. I would love to see it close up though.

 

[softgrey]

that skirt is one of my fave pieces from the collection...
it reminds me of dries...

especially the colours...
but dries would have it all emboidered, not appliqued like that...
agree that the detail shot is not as impressive as it is from farther away

 

[fashionista-ta]

^^Well it's a valid point if something is BLATANTLY being ripped off. Wouldn't want to heap Marc with praise for something that he was 'heavily inspired' by something else.

I'm honestly not sure quite what the standard is ... for example, those "seatbelt" straps I'm so fond of ... we probably all associate them with Prada, but as softgrey pointed out, she has some in her closet and the label says Alberta Ferretti. And I noticed them in this season's Verrier. Ashleigh is hailed as one of the best new American designers, but much of her stuff is clearly inspired by ... Marc.

I'm not all that wild about it, but there seems to be a tremendous amount of "borrowing," both from the living and the dead (Poiret for example). Seems to be part of post-modern art, and Marc seems to be part of that tradition. I'm no fashion historian, but it's easy to see because so much of the borrowing is absolutely current.

As far as these skirts, I actually quite prefer Marc's version

I have to admit, though, that I save my righteous indignation for clothes that no real woman could wear. Although I'm interested in fashion as art, at the end of the day, I want to know what I'm going to be wearing in 6 months, and if I don't like my options, *that's* what really ticks me off.

 

[baklanyc]

sorry...
but you ned to go more than 2 seasons back...
marc jacobs basically invented that with his grunge collection...
MARC is the one who started the whole 'tying sleeves around the waist thing'...
and i remember donna doing it a LOT as well...


if anyone was copying- it would be anne sophie back...
who is much newer to the fashion scene...

The sleeves tying around the waist thing goes even further back - if I'm not mistaken, Bill Blass did a version with a shirt dress around 1983, maybe even in the late 70s, using a man's shirt complete with white contrast collar and matching white cuffs on the 'sleeves'. It was then knocked off on Seventh Avenue so much that you saw versions of it in Macy's. I remember, because I loved the design so much that I wanted my mom to make one for herself! So regardless who has brought it back in recent times, it's not an original idea unless you're crediting someone from almost 20 years ago. FYI all!

 

[kimair]

there was a top and a skirt that had the same velvety flower detail (pics from style.com

looks kinda interesting...i like it on the skirt you posted ta-ta...

 

[Caffeine]

look, eventually the "copy cat" discussion will become a history debate There is always people coming with more "original" ideas. guys, humanbeings are around for thousand of years, and comparing with the past will be a never ending process. I guarantee that there will be grandmas laughing at those comparisons and saying "i used to wear that"...and it will happen to every single designer. I admit that I am defensive, but it appears to me that Marc is just an easy target.

 

[softgrey]

The sleeves tying around the waist thing goes even further back - if I'm not mistaken, Bill Blass did a version with a shirt dress around 1983, maybe even in the late 70s, using a man's shirt complete with white contrast collar and matching white cuffs on the 'sleeves'. It was then knocked off on Seventh Avenue so much that you saw versions of it in Macy's. I remember, because I loved the design so much that I wanted my mom to make one for herself! So regardless who has brought it back in recent times, it's not an original idea unless you're crediting someone from almost 20 years ago. FYI all!

yeah...i remembered earlier stuff but i couldn't remember designers or labels so i couldn't back it up...
thanks bakla......

i like that red skirt kimair...and the bag is cute too...

 

[Pastry]

wow! you guys were really at it for the last few hours...reading back the comments...i feel so studied now

 

[Pastry]

FYI-the models said the shoes were IMPOSSIBLE to walk in..

where did you hear this?

 

[softgrey]

from one of the models pastry...

 

[Pastry]

oh sure..keep me guessing ..well, it's your right

 

[Zazie]

Actually,Marc was doing silly flannels tied around the waist...wasn't skirts with built in ties. And even if there have been people doing big ties before,never has there been anything as blatant as I see in that particular skirt. And actually I believe it was Rei and Yohji who started the whole big tie thing Let's be specific here,too..there is a really big difference between being influenced and actually copying somebody's ideas. And while the style itself may not be original,at least Ann-Sofie's interpretation was genuine and her "own". What's more, we all know she's got a web site and we all know Marc just loves his research....so think whatever you like...but I still find him the biggest plagarist in the industry.

2nd that! There is a great difference between just tying stuff round the waist/hip and translating that comforting gesture into a concept for a skirt. I'm not sure if Rei or Yohji did it before, but I haven't seen that till ASB did her version. MJ's version is almost copy for copy, except he used leather, which is crazy as leather is bulky and doesn't tie well.

Please, people, don't get personal...unless you are MJ himself or some proxy. We are not trying to "show off" fashion history or knowledge, the main issue is how relevant.

First of all, nothing wrong with being knowledgeable or having a good memory for designs that made an impression. Those who take fashion seriously probably even accumulate their own treasured archives. I am awed by tfsers because many of them can simply post stuff from 10, 20 years ago, before the internet, hell, before they were born, just look at some of those threads. How many fashion editors/journalists do that? I respect and kowtow to knowledge, be it fashion, history, science, art or literature.

2nd, it is only doing justice to other designers to acknowledge their originality and contribution. I'd hate for something I thought up or invented duplicated and quietly "becoming" the genius of another person, especially when I'm a struggling artist and the other a huge money-churning machine.

3rd, a little post like mine will not make the slightest dent in the sales of MJ's clothes. So, don't worry. It's not going to stop his fans from splurging. But at least ASB or other designers are owed some acknowledgement.

4th, If I was wrong and MJ indeed designed a built-in sleeves skirt exactly like that before ASB, I'd love to see the old pictures and be happy to be corrected. It is also good to correct my own and others' misconceptions about MJ. This is what makes a good fashion forum, not be afraid to talk about the designs beyond "I love/hate it" and not to be swayed by editorials.

Peace.

 

[Fox in the Snow]

but you are assuming that i think that mk's look is bad or something...

i didn't say that...
and i didn't say i hated mj......

some people are really defensive about this...
...

erm, while we're on the topic of being defensive,you weren't the only one who made who made the comparison

and if I recall there have been many MJ bashing sessions with you at the helm

either way, I do believe that comparing anything or anyone to Mary Kate Olsen is an insult but maybe that's just me cos I think she's horrid.

One point I WILL agree is those shoes are horrific