Marc Jacobs F/W 2006.07 New York

Caffeine said:
how long did Marc struggle and how hard did Marc work to get what he has now? He persisted and didn't change himself to gain success. i am also sure that there must be reasons for some designers to be successful and some not. If I were a truggling artist, I would spend more time working and wait for my moment, and learn how and why some other artists are more successful. I would take other people in a positive way and learn from them, not being so negative and trying to convince myself that the successful ones don't deserve it and I do.:flower:

Fashion is not fine art, and the forms are limited by human's body, so there are just so many ideas you can play with. Even in architecture design, you can spot "copies" here and there, but complaining is not the right way to go. Here is why: there are just so many elements to use, and if one element is right for one product, then you can use it.

Richard Mier used white bricks in his work (and it is his signature look, btw), but it doesn't mean he patterned it and other architects are not allowed to use it. I read and studied Zaha Hadid's work, and I designed something inspired by what I saw in the past two years, but it doesn't mean that I copied her because everything melted together already.

Vera Wang made a similar necklace as Marc did in one of the past seasons, and her stylist insisted not to show it on runway, but even Vera Wang had no idea that Marc made the same thing. Do they need an "anti-copy" committee or something? No. :lol:

I read the article, if I am not mistaken, I don't think it was indicated that "Vera Wang had no idea that MJ made it...etc.", just that "she relented and took them out." Anyway, an accessory is a small issue, an entire garment is a different story.

Sometimes, an artist struggles because s/he isn't as talented, savvy, charisamtic or well-connected. Other times, the artist is hugely talented but is being ripped off by other designers, ignored by the editors and the customers are only interested in known brand names. A few of the times, the artist is mediocre, half-talented, but manages to keep up the hype, is shrewd in spotting good designs and wins the support and attention of important people with celebrity clout, influences and money.B)

I think your architecture examples are not doing justice to MJ's "talent" - it isn't just a particular pattern of tiles or a certain type of shape or form he appropriated. It's more like an exact copy of plan, elevation, section and building construction details resulting in a distinctly duplicated final form, with perhaps a different material (say, tiles instead of concrete) and maybe built one floor higher. There is a clear distinction between borrowed influences and outright plagiarism that most of us can tell.

Do you study architecture? Isn't that the coolest subject? I used to work with Rem Koolhaas (OMA in Rotterdam) - he was a struggling artist for decades, in the red, even though no one doubted his talent. He was however, a cult-like figure with the students. It was purely the decision by the high priest of architecture - Philip Johnson - to finally "recognize" him that saved his *ss. Assuredly, there are more cases like these out there than the system doing justice to the truly talented. Here at the TFS, if not in the mainstream press, perhaps there's room for some of these fashion talents to be recognized, and their original designs attributed. ^_^
 
Actually, I find this one of his best collections and probably also for NY Fashion Week. The others are so awful, MJ stands out. It is really well-styled, and the pieces, although unoriginal, are well picked and edited. It doesn't mean I would splurge on them, I'm on the lookout for other designers and picking up a true directional original. :smile:
 
please guys dont get too worked up or personally offended
everyone has the right to post their opinions, respect rules :wink:
 
I simply just don't buy the idea of copying...(I assume Vera Wang didn't go to MJ's studio to pick what she wants to use in her show as well...:lol: ) I don't think that designers have the time to find whatever popular from previous collections to use in his/her shows. They do whatever in their mind (or whatever melted together and work in their mind). Some might be from other people's work, but they don't show those things on purpose to gain fame or popularity.
in architecture design, more often than not, a pure copy will do harm to the work instead. Every case is different, so you have to make minor changes to the plan,section, or elevation (or 3D shape, put it in Frank Gehry way). But those minor changes will change the work completely and most of times make the design bad.
I studied and worked on architecture design before. Rem is one of my favorites (among FG,ZH,DL). I loved the his books. A book called Frangmented Perfection made huge influence on me and my design process was influenced largely by Sci-Arc...(my instructor was from Sci-arc). You can easily spot similarities in those people's work, because they use the same design process/methodology. But they were not copying each other. That is what I was trying to say on fashion designers.
I no longer work on architecture although I was quite successful. I couldn't deal with the pure "design" v.s. the real life (being creative v.s. commercial success) difference, so I now deal with real life only now without having to wait until I'm in 50s to be successful. That's why I respect the people who persists and keeps "struggling" until they succeed or never succeed...The only thing I hate is to take things negatively and keep complaining. :flower:

Zazie said:
I read the article, if I am not mistaken, I don't think it was indicated that "Vera Wang had no idea that MJ made it...etc.", just that "she relented and took them out." Anyway, an accessory is a small issue, an entire garment is a different story.

Sometimes, an artist struggles because s/he isn't as talented, savvy, charisamtic or well-connected. Other times, the artist is hugely talented but is being ripped off by other designers, ignored by the editors and the customers are only interested in known brand names. A few of the times, the artist is mediocre, half-talented, but manages to keep up the hype, is shrewd in spotting good designs and wins the support and attention of important people with celebrity clout, influences and money.B)

I think your architecture examples are not doing justice to MJ's "talent" - it isn't just a particular pattern of tiles or a certain type of shape or form he appropriated. It's more like an exact copy of plan, elevation, section and building construction details resulting in a distinctly duplicated final form, with perhaps a different material (say, tiles instead of concrete) and maybe built one floor higher. There is a clear distinction between borrowed influences and outright plagiarism that most of us can tell.

Do you study architecture? Isn't that the coolest subject? I used to work with Rem Koolhaas (OMA in Rotterdam) - he was a struggling artist for decades, in the red, even though no one doubted his talent. He was however, a cult-like figure with the students. It was purely the decision by the high priest of architecture - Philip Johnson - to finally "recognize" him that saved his *ss. Assuredly, there are more cases like these out there than the system doing justice to the truly talented. Here at the TFS, if not in the mainstream press, perhaps there's room for some of these fashion talents to be recognized, and their original designs attributed. ^_^
 
I am of course using the plan/section/elevation as metaphor for the extent of what I see being "borrowed" by MJ...which is what bothers me really, as I'm fine with "influences" and "touches" but not outright duplication, and was not seriously suggesting this happens in architecture. For some of us, seeing the recent MJ collections just sets off fireworks in the memory synapses...:smile:

A lot of the fashion designers seem to "channel" others, I don't see this as "purely coincidental" because I cynically consider this a cut-throat, competitive industry; designers are not naive and innocent. The truly talented ones don't need to do that, but are setting the trends and directions themselves, and it is usually unanimous - you don't see Yohji Yamamoto and think "hmm..Balenciaga 2 seasons ago".

Oh well, it is always good to have different views and beliefs, and we can agree to disagree.

I was there at OMA when Miuccia Prada was "collecting" architects - H&D, Rem, etc. to design the Prada stores in NY, LA, SF and Tokyo. I think it compromised Rem thereafter. Work was *very* hard, 12 hours a day and Rotterdam is the best city to ensure there is no social life to interfere with work. I left and am still an apprentice and far from certification, but very lucky to be working on proposals for cool commercial buildings, boutique hotels, spas, interiors, etc., and skipping the dreary CD part, which satisfies both interests in fashion and architecture for now. The best satisfaction is to see your work in Wallpaper, but then, oh well...still feel like a cog in the huge machinery. Further down the road...wow...hmmm...same feeling.:smile:
 
many designers employ an entire team to do nothing but research other designers...they put together 'inspiration' boards...etc...
this is a fact...plain and simple...
they also shop the market and bring back anything that might be good to 'knock-off'...both new and vintage...
marc is known to buy huge ammounts of vintage dress patterns from ebay and re-create them exactly...

it's not really a big secret within the industry....
just standard operating procedure for a lot of comapnies...


i'm just glad he stopped doing the vintage thing already...
that was when i really couldn't stand him...

isaac mizrahi once practically attacked my friend on the street and tried to buy the vintage jacket he was wearing...:lol:
my friend said no....isaac wasn't happy...
:ninja:

you used to be able to go to the daryl k store and she would have a bunch of vintage stuff ina bin for sale...
which were OBVIOUSLY the pieces she had copied and had for sale on her racks...THAT was ridiculous...
:lol:....



OT-
i even heard some large mass market companies have a motto-
not doing anything that hasn't already been done before...
*best way to insure commercial success....:wink:
 
i fear for marc's sanity....part of me wondered if he and his team did this as a joke and is now laughing at all the fools who will actually spend large amts. of $ on this stuff....that would be really funny :P another part of me agrees with the person who saw it as an apocalyptic statement. The bags are so big they're like shields with chains! its like we're wearing armor and protective layers to sheild us from the world :ninja:
 
This is by far the best collection i have ever seen in my life, i took a while to think of any collections that have the potential "sellability" while maintaining a sense of direction or overture to fashion, he is moving it forward when everyone is stuck in the mud, there was not one designer in new york that left me in awe, the emotion that i felt after seeing his show was alien to me, they are clothes, but marc jacobs has transcended that. each and every piece is appealing to every body type(made from an outsiders judgement) and this is what i would like to see woman wear. marc used the word "heroic" and it is beyond that for me, intigue, infatuation, love, all words that make me so spellbound by this collection, the reasoning behind that is becuase each piece is so commercial, we have a genius in or midst, i wondered in the past how he got so famous, this is why, and he covered the leg,"news flash fashion people, winter is cold!"
 
Bidwell said:
Designs such as the tie front skirt has been attempted by more than a few of us over the years. They are experiments that are simply in the air. Fashion is not some science that comes with automatic copyrights. Everything is evolution and some arrive at the same result on their own time.
Kudos to Marc for venturing into new territory.

one of the best post i have ever read!!!!!i dont know why some people (not you bidwell) are so willingly blind...
 
Re crochet ...

Just wanted to mention ... my recollection is that the first designer who made a (high-profile anyway) statement with crochet necklaces was Prada. When Marc showed his the next season, I actually really liked it as an example of riffing on another designer's work in a clear way, while taking the concept to the next level. Prada showed multicolored round crocheted beads. Marc used gold yarn, and made chains and other "standard" necklace forms, such as drops from a chain, using crochet. (Of course the first thing you learn in crochet is the chain stitch ...) These were great big necklaces that he juxtaposed in last fall's show with opals on tiny rose gold chains or black cord.

I haven't seen the Wang necklace of course, but the stylist's point seems to have been that merely changing gold to silver was not enough.

PS After seeing this last batch of shows, Marc's begins to look downright colorful :innocent:
 
ok. fill me in.
was there a better show?

thinking about better.
capsize everything else.

all exercizze, maybe? no.
 

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