Designer & Fashion Insiders Behavior (PLEASE READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING)

[Lola701]

The problem is that people somehow seems to forget that riots are a consequence...Not the end goal. It’s because there’s an anger that people destroy and steal. And no, If there was peaceful reactions, I don’t think people would totally get it.

And yes, I’m sad people are stealing from young or black owned or even conglomerates owned businesses because it hurts a lot of jobs and in the end a lot of families but we had the same thing in France. For nearly 6 months it was impossible to go very specific areas of Paris and other big cities. During the whole month of December, there were strikes that did not helped the economy.

Yes protesters are protesting and looters are looting but if people are destroying and stealing it’s because they believes (rightfully) that in this capitalist society, material things are more important than their lives or their rights.
When the Gilets Jaunes destroyed stores and Cars in Paris, they were very strategic. It was a war of class!
In the US, class and race are linked so it was almost impossible for it to not happen...

About Virgil, how can we expect integrity in his actions from a person who does not have integrity in the way he is doing his job. Virgil never had a collective agenda. Throwing the words « CULTURE » and « BLACKNESS » is as much of a marketing to him than it is for the industry with the word « Sustainability ».
You can be black and totally disconnected to the issues black people in your country and the countries you works are facing. Much like Dolce & Gabbana are totally disconnected to the issues gay people have.
It’s not because someone looks like you, makes you implicitly believes that he is an ally that it means he is an ally!

And don’t get it twisted, this is a war together against racism, not a war against white people. There are a lot of comments dismissing the BLM by using ALM. There’s police brutality against everybody but the ones that are the most affected by it are black people in the US.

The gag of CELINE by Hedi posting something....

 

[Benn98]

There are a lot of comments dismissing the BLM by using ALM.

Ahem...the model 'who has never been in Paris'.....

 

[Lola701]

Ahem...the model 'who has never been in Paris'.....

Who? I did not get see the reactions from a lot of people of the industry...

 

[Benn98]

Who? I did not get see the reactions from a lot of people of the industry...

Heidi Klum.

 

[DK92]

She edited the caption, but before she said that it only happens in the USA. Perhaps that explains her choices for VP covers.

PS: In fact it is ironic, she has been revisiting her file and posting (flooding) the same white models!

 

[Lola701]

^^
Because France, it colonial past and the structure of the society is different, people don’t necessarly « get racism » in the same way.
There’s racism of course but it’s very subtle and because the communities are mixed, people have sometimes racists ways without realizing it.

Paris is a very diverse city but in a way, the areas that sells the « glamour of Paris » are not really diverse. So in a way, VP is the bubble of the bubble. That’s why for example there’s no backlash or any demands for diversity from black or Arabs communities here in France.

The pressure to speak comes really from the US. There are at the same moment that I’m writing protests for Police Brutality because of the murder of a young black man here in France that happened in 2016 and that was never settled. The recent events in the US have gave another layer to the issue...
You won’t see people people talking about that. Unfortunately, in France, people don’t expect support from celebrities, brands or communities. The same for the Gilets Jaunes...Karl was the only person from the fashion industry that talked about it.

At least, Emmanuelle post was on point even if she was asked to edit her post. I’ve just seen what Heidi Klum posted as mentioned by @Benn98... it’s confusing.

 

[Littleathquakes]

What did Heidi Klum post? she's such an airhead.

 

[LostInNJ]

^^
Because France, it colonial past and the structure of the society is different, people don’t necessarly « get racism » in the same way.
There’s racism of course but it’s very subtle and because the communities are mixed, people have sometimes racists ways without realizing it.

Paris is a very diverse city but in a way, the areas that sells the « glamour of Paris » are not really diverse. So in a way, VP is the bubble of the bubble. That’s why for example there’s no backlash or any demands for diversity from black or Arabs communities here in France.

The pressure to speak comes really from the US. There are at the same moment that I’m writing protests for Police Brutality because of the murder of a young black man here in France that happened in 2016 and that was never settled. The recent events in the US have gave another layer to the issue...
You won’t see people people talking about that. Unfortunately, in France, people don’t expect support from celebrities, brands or communities. The same for the Gilets Jaunes...Karl was the only person from the fashion industry that talked about it.

At least, Emmanuelle post was on point even if she was asked to edit her post. I’ve just seen what Heidi Klum posted as mentioned by @Benn98... it’s confusing.

I think it is good tho. I don't necessarily fault her for her initial caption of saying what is happening in the US, as the movement as a whole and the killing of George Floyd happened here. However, it would be naive to think that her country isn't affected by racism, and I think the calling out from people stems from the lack of diversity (not just black models) in her Vogue. It's a bit like eating a Big Mac and saying fast food is horrible.

Its interesting tho, because of what is happening here in America, it has sparked the conversation and protests in France, UK, and Germany too. Which is wonderful. Brands are taking a stand as well, but that's a whole other discussion lol

 

[Lola701]

I think it is good tho. I don't necessarily fault her for her initial caption of saying what is happening in the US, as the movement as a whole and the killing of George Floyd happened here. However, it would be naive to think that her country isn't affected by racism, and I think the calling out from people stems from the lack of diversity (not just black models) in her Vogue. It's a bit like eating a Big Mac and saying fast food is horrible.

Its interesting tho, because of what is happening here in America, it has sparked the conversation and protests in France, UK, and Germany too. Which is wonderful. Brands are taking a stand as well, but that's a whole other discussion lol

I agree with everything...
I think the internet got everything mixed. Add to that a generation gap. White people in Europe and specially France (and even black people) can’t necessarly relate to the AA’s struggle. Because racism here is not institutionalized and there’s a general discomfort (is that the word?) around the race discussion that lead to a lack of information...People are somehow « weird » in their way to express their support.

And unfortunately, because America is so big and it issues resonates around the world, people just assume that « The world knows » when in fact, the world does not know. Outside of the suburbs or the hood, the black/arab experience is quite different. ...And as a black woman, I don’t fear for my life in the streets of Paris. And black men here do not ask themselves if they are going to make it to their homes at the end of their work day...

I think that this is the best opportunity to educate our allies. In the same way that when there were protests against same sex marriage here in France, the LGBT community used the opportunity to educate their allies. As a black woman (because the discrimination I get is not the same as a gay person anyway despite being minorities), in that period, I totally understood a lot of parameters that I did not necessarly get despite being around gay people for the most part of my life....

 

[kenndale]

Carine’s pic with Anok was really awful.

 

[Lola701]

At least now, she knows better...
I’m starting to think that every public person should have their social media handled by PR. It came from a good intention but was stupid and despite being erased from her IG, it will live forever on Diet Prada.
I like Carine but that was stupid...

 

[JPineapple]

Here’s the apology

 

[dodencebt]

I don't even understand Carine's post. Anok is not a black woman, she is my friend? Did she think those two are mutually exclusive? Is there a language barrier I'm not getting? It's fine that she apologized, but for what? She doesn't explain what she meant by what she wrote, she only gives a PR-written apology.

 

[Benn98]

I don't even understand Carine's post. Anok is not a black woman, she is my friend? Did she think those two are mutually exclusive? Is there a language barrier I'm not getting? It's fine that she apologized, but for what? She doesn't explain what she meant by what she wrote, she only gives a PR-written apology.

She probably meant that she sees Anok as a person (her friend) first before she sees the fact that she's black. And from the surface, that doesn't sound too bad because she's not dismissing the experience of black people. She's probably trying to say something to the effect of 'the world would be a better place if we all regard each other just as persons as opposed to black/white/Asian etc.'

Now the accompanying picture however.......

 

[LostInNJ]

At least now, she knows better...
I’m starting to think that every public person should have their social media handled by PR. It came from a good intention but was stupid and despite being erased from her IG, it will live forever on Diet Prada.
I like Carine but that was stupid...

Agreed. In a way, I think having social media (as harsh as it can be because literally anyone from anywhere can chime in) is sometimes helpful in cases like this because it's a lesson learned. As opposed to one person daring to call her out and someone similar to her saying they didn't find it offensive. She is now aware of something she previously wasn't.

My gripe with DP, however, is that they probably won't update their post or highlight her apology or acknowledge that even though what she said in her post was careless, it was done with good intent.

 

[dodencebt]

She probably meant that she sees Anok as a person (her friend) first before she sees the fact that she's black. And from the surface, that doesn't sound too bad because she's not dismissing the experience of black people. She's probably trying to say something to the effect of 'the world would be a better place if we all regard each other just as persons as opposed to black/white/Asian etc.'

Now the accompanying picture however.......

Yeah, I totally get that she didn't mean anything bad by posting, but I wish she explained what she meant by that. I'm a bit tired of generic apologies by people who don't understand why something they said is wrong. Like LostInNJ said above, it's good that this backlash happens so people can learn from their mistakes: I just hope Carine understands that her description and photo are quite tone deaf and that there are better ways to help and express ally ship, and didn't post the apology just to save face.

 

[Benn98]

Yeah, I totally get that she didn't mean anything bad by posting, but I wish she explained what she meant by that. I'm a bit tired of generic apologies by people who don't understand why something they said is wrong. Like LostInNJ said above, it's good that this backlash happens so people can learn from their mistakes: I just hope Carine understands that her description and photo are quite tone deaf and that there are better ways to help and express ally ship, and didn't post the apology just to save face.

Agreed! And part of me thinks that cancel culture can get so intense sometimes that it doesn't allow someone the opportunity to see or explain what they've done or said that is problematic. Yes, cancel culture has been effective in some cases, but ultimately there is only one recourse if you want to come away from it relatively unharmed and continue using your platform to a massive audience. You have to apologise. The past 5 years have taught us that the backlash won't end until you've apologised, and you don't even have to mean it. And that's probably the reason why Carine will say something problematic in two years' time again because she was forced to say sorry without thinking or stating her point of view. That's not her fault, that's on our current society. Society isn't asking her why she thinks like, they're screaming at her for thinking like that. And if you dare to explain you run the risk of rubbing people up wrong even with that, so of course she's going the safe route by just coughing up a PR-typed apology.

Also, DietPrada = thrash.

 

[Lola701]

I must also add that in the industry, it’s quite interesting how people choose to call out instead of addressing the issues with people they are seeing regularly. The internet gives us the illusion of the world sharing the same issues in the same way when it’s not.
Carine is not the only one to be tone deaf. It’s not even her fault, it’s the reality of her position in the fashion industry. You could expect that from working in the US to working with diverse people, she would get that but no! In the fashion industry, people are only willing to talk about race when they are around people that looks like them. Why? Because it’s still a subject that makes a lot of people uncomfortable...

How can you make realize to someone who is 60+ years old and who has never been or at least considered herself as a racist that some things that she can say or do can be hurtful, when you only wait for her to make a mistake?

In social media, people assume that you must know because it’s their reality, it affects them personally and stuff...

I’m not wasting my time trying to educate racists (and through the comments on various BLM posts, you can recognize them). But if we want to help people we consider as allies, I don’t think the DP method is the best...

And tbh, in those cases, a PR statement is just perfect. People are sensitive on social media. The words used are very important...Just see how the intent of her message was destroyed by the words she used.

 

[LostInNJ]

Agreed! And part of me thinks that cancel culture can get so intense sometimes that it doesn't allow someone the opportunity to see or explain what they've done or said that is problematic. Yes, cancel culture has been effective in some cases, but ultimately there is only one recourse if you want to come away from it relatively unharmed and continue using your platform to a massive audience. You have to apologise. The past 5 years have taught us that the backlash won't end until you've apologised, and you don't even have to mean it. And that's probably the reason why Carine will say something problematic in two years' time again because she was forced to say sorry without thinking or stating her point of view. That's not her fault, that's on our current society. Society isn't asking her why she thinks like, they're screaming at her for thinking like that. And if you dare to explain you run the risk of rubbing people up wrong even with that, so of course she's going the safe route by just coughing up a PR-typed apology.

Also, DietPrada = thrash.

I must also add that in the industry, it’s quite interesting how people choose to call out instead of addressing the issues with people they are seeing regularly. The internet gives us the illusion of the world sharing the same issues in the same way when it’s not.
Carine is not the only one to be tone deaf. It’s not even her fault, it’s the reality of her position in the fashion industry. You could expect that from working in the US to working with diverse people, she would get that but no! In the fashion industry, people are only willing to talk about race when they are around people that looks like them. Why? Because it’s still a subject that makes a lot of people uncomfortable...

How can you make realize to someone who is 60+ years old and who has never been or at least considered herself as a racist that some things that she can say or do can be hurtful, when you only wait for her to make a mistake?

In social media, people assume that you must know because it’s their reality, it affects them personally and stuff...

I’m not wasting my time trying to educate racists (and through the comments on various BLM posts, you can recognize them). But if we want to help people we consider as allies, I don’t think the DP method is the best...

And tbh, in those cases, a PR statement is just perfect. People are sensitive on social media. The words used are very important...Just see how the intent of her message was destroyed by the words she used.

ALL. OF. THIS. Well said, everyone!

 

[dodencebt]

I think we can all agree that the Diet Prada duo can't wait for someone in the fashion industry to have a slip-up nowadays so they can blow it up, get a pat on the back and gain a few new followers. It feels like educating people has sadly taken a backseat to creating drama and leaving it at that.