Model Behavior [Read post #1 before posting] #10

Discussion in 'Rumor has it...' started by tFS Thread Manager, Aug 21, 2017.

  1. dsamg

    dsamg Well-Known Member

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    Not sure it is online anywhere but after the show he complained in front of quite a few people that the agency had told him she was a different size but he didn't know she looked THAT different. Can't quote exactly due to no weight-talk rules. Heard it from multiple sources at the time.
     
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  2. dodencebt

    dodencebt Well-Known Member

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    That's really disappointing, although I'm not really surprised.
     
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  3. Lola701

    Lola701 Well-Known Member

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    It’s sad but it’s the reality of her business and of our society...
    When Rihanna gained a little bit of weight, it made headlines.
    I remember i was at the Vuitton show where Kate Moss closed...at the end, everybody was talking about her cellulite.

    The sad thing about the Gemma return in 2008 is that it felt like nobody was prepared. She end up wearing a swimsuit and very basic clothes for the Chanel show because the clothes didn’t fit.
    She was the star of the collection but she didn’t even wore an eveningdress and there was Natalia at the time who was the perfect girl who lost her baby weight.

    Even if Karl liked her and supported her in public because she received criticism, he complained in private a little bit because the clothes didn’t fit.

    More than modeling, image is very important in the working place. Whether you work in retail, in the business world or in fashion.
    People are judgemental anyway! Models got it harder because their job is based on their look...

    It’s not even a question of loyalty or anything.

    The problem with models and the industry is a problem in the society. What is more concerning is that now, with social media, we see the rise of another insane body shape: the Perrier bottle-KARDASHIAN. It creates another insecurity and another problem in the society.
     
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  4. cestmagique

    cestmagique you set the scene

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    ^I mean that it's about loyalty/not being a complete d*ck in the personal sense, not professional. She didn't need to get railroaded for gaining weight by the same people who worked with her for years and then went ahead and used her for the show anyway. And then complained about her in "private" even though big shock, we all heard the comments anyway. If she wasn't the size they wanted, they shouldn't have used her.
     
  5. Lax89

    Lax89 Well-Known Member

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    The end of the video seems a bit hypocritical. Sure, there is this movement of body inclusivity but the (high-)fashion world that is the focus in this forum is far from it.

    I wish magazines had the balls to interview casting directors/models' agents to talk about this issue.
    It's sad for the models and I'm sure they don't get any support from their agency when this happens.
     
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  6. Lola701

    Lola701 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think she felt bad because of Karl. I mean his name is fine to put in the conversation but the criticism she received were from the industry in general.
    Even if he complained he used her in the campaign for that season and I don’t think there was bad blood between them.

    The problem is the fact that that season, apart from a few designers like Gaultier and Galliano, she didn’t worked that much.

    Let’s not act that it’s a fairytale. What you describe is the reality of any business. It doesn’t matter in your work place, those who cheers for you when you’re on top can turn their back on you later. It’s a working environment and it’s sad because it happened to a very successful model but it happened to a lot of models before.

    I don’t know if they received the same empathy...

    And maybe the last thing is that we are all responsible. There’s a general hypocrisy.
    The rise of Gemma wasn’t a good thing in the first place...That babydoll wave was already a bad indication.

    I paid attention to Gemma in the Tom Ford for Gucci last show. Her face and body was insane but not in the good way. She looked good but it didn’t really standout in the best way because it just portrayed another extreme.

    The size 0 started with those young girls. Of course they didn’t realized that they were going to be their own enemy...

    The people who applaud the Vogue video on the comments on YouTube are the same who bullied Gigi Hadid for being too curvy when she walked the Versace show.

    We all love to see a beautifully cut trouser or dress on the runway but never ask ourselves if those girls wearing the clothes have problems or are insecure.

    The big problem with the models conversation is that it’s endless but at the same time it’s impossible to satisfy everybody.
    The supermodels of the 90’s with their insane, fitted, athletic and sometimes curvy bodies were criticized because those bodies were unrealistic, unrelatable for the masses...
    Then people wanted reality but the problem is that reality went to another extreme.

    So now, we have in our schizophrenic era people championing diversity in body types but at the same time having very drastic « healthy » regimen. We have plus size models with unrealistic bodies.

    I wonder sometimes if those conversations are not a bit useless sometimes because at the end, even the models talking still fit in the boxes they are fighting against. It’s a system and in order to work, they have to fit, they have to exercise, to have a drastic regimen because no matter what, their body is still their working instrument...

    It’s a tricky conversation anyway.
     
  7. dsamg

    dsamg Well-Known Member

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    Also interesting that Ali seemed to call WSJ out for humiliating her when from their perspective, they probably thought they were supporting her by calling out the industry. I'm being careful about my words as I know her mother used to be very active on here, but I do believe at that point I would have stopped my child modelling. We can call out the casting directors or brands or whoever, but Vogue needs to take a good look at their own magazine and at the people around these girls.

    I was shocked by Sarah's story - what kind of adult does that to a 17 year old. Grow up. Some of these people are just stuck in their perpetual bubble.
     
  8. GivenchyHomme

    GivenchyHomme Well-Known Member

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  9. MulletProof

    MulletProof Well-Known Member

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    I remember the context of Gemma's story like it was yesterday and a bit like Lola. It wasn't a sudden switch in clients.. she had gradually become less interesting, partly because she grew up and her success was based on looking like a child/doll and partly because looking like a child/doll was no longer desirable. She was also getting into acting, so if your career is.. not exactly in decline, just not getting any more buzz and you're not pursuing it full time, and there's a bigger star (Natalia) that people have wanted back for years at the same time you choose to work more, and on top of that, you're not returning in the shape people know you for and that you built your success on: recipe for rejection. It also seemed to me like she was dealing with something far more personal: physical and mental health, as a result of the strain that fashion can put on such a young person, especially with her level of success. Then there's Heath's death... I can't even imagine how that went down privately since she was a bit too much in public (sounding like nobody was more affected than her- he had a daughter..). There were a lot of factors involved. I don't think anyone would've been able to handle these upside-downs like a pro but even less so a 21 year-old that's received nothing but public praise for years.

    When she disappeared and was spotted later looking dramatically different.. people wouldn't care so much if this was an academic figure that went on hiatus and resurfaced looking like that, but this is a model, she will naturally be scrutinized.. she has made a name and fortune by selling image.. yes it’s cruel and they're people too... but their business on a good phase remains the same on a bad phase.

    My conclusion is that she was well-educated and with creative needs to be a model (setting the tune for an ongoing struggle because you have awareness of what has the most value and you eventually grow resentment for being judged for what you think is nobody's business). And with her really being at the top of her game, going back to school or even away just isn't that easy. Once that is considered and maybe due to her age, she expected loyalty, and her physical and mental health came down crashing when she realised people do turn their backs in personal life and 100% in a professional setting ESPECIALLY if you're not selling what you used to sell.

    I'm not surprised to see how bad she still feels about it all 12 years later, the way she completely disappeared for years made it clear how she wanted nothing to do with fashion and being in the public eye. I work with a lot of people that worked as children and had massive success at 13-16 and were congratulated for their body on a daily basis. It becomes a struggle often for the rest of their lives to deal with the notion that you were more accepted and at your “best” at that age and that nothing you’ve done after compares. It’s sad.

    Not making it a Gemma issue and justifying fashion or modeling btw. Modeling/casting agencies/etc are the bottom-feeders of fashion after all. I just think parents need to think hard and long about whether they want to interrupt their child's development and alter their psyche forever by allowing them to join a market with their product being the way they look. If they have the means to provide them a better life in a more substantial way (quality education, creative expression), think twice maybe.. model is m-o-d-e-l.. a freakin' muted prototype, people may think they want to be that, but no human REALLY wants to be that and be treated as that.

    (so invested.. lol)

    back to the video, it’s just such a joke coming from Vogue. Almost like the government making a video about how people feel about policies that have affected them.
     
    #1069 MulletProof, Apr 26, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
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  10. modela

    modela Well-Known Member

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    I find Gemma to be so confusing ? She sometimes acts like the popular girl who lost her popularity.I wonder if she misses being on top and has regrets on how her career has gone ; She has tried to comeback multiple times and it has brought her nothing .Why not move on from an industry that is not welcoming to you .Her whole identity seems to be soo stuck on her "supermodel" days.Her prime.

    *Hearsay read on another site (skinnygossip) that during that time she also behaved like a brat ,was acting out.
     
  11. modela

    modela Well-Known Member

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  12. modela

    modela Well-Known Member

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    I was actually shocked to hear her call out WSJ because the way i remember it was that she and her mom publicly complained ahout ali's lackluster season in paris.
     
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  13. cestmagique

    cestmagique you set the scene

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    That is my exact problem with these videos. The content is important, but it's so bizarre that they're reporting on this stuff as if they didn't have anything to do with it.
     
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  14. dsamg

    dsamg Well-Known Member

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    I mean she was extremely young and starving so I don't really blame her for acting like a brat. She obviously came back because she needed the money and has no other skills - not being harsh, just the truth. She actually has some lucrative contracts at the moment so I wouldn't say it has brought her nothing.
     
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  15. dsamg

    dsamg Well-Known Member

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    Btw are the no weight talk rules over? I remember a time we would get a warning for even alluding to anyone's size.
     
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  16. Lola701

    Lola701 Well-Known Member

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    Technically, they don’t really have anything « direct » to do with it. They are responsible because they are a part of the industry and feeding of that but it’s not the Vogue staff who asked to models to starve themselves.
    It’s bizarre but the models didn’t find weird to appear on the video...
     
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  17. billiejbob

    billiejbob Active Member

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    Considering how important size diversity is becoming in the modeling world and how more models are becoming more outspoken about things like harassment, exploitation, and weight pressure, talking about weight issues is just part and parcel of model discussions now. It would be extremely detrimental (and plain wrong) for TFS administrators to censor any talk about weight considering videos like the Vogue one put a lot of emphasis on it. It should never be a taboo subject because making it taboo stops or restricts any progress for discussion of size diversity in the fashion world etc.
     
  18. magsaddict

    magsaddict Active Member

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    I think in a way the industry has come along way in 10 years, there are certainly girls bigger than Gemma at the time she wore the Chanel bikini nowadays, an odd positive of the whole insta-girl thing is they get the luxury of not having to starve as much because they're not really there based on measurements to begin with.

    One model whose trajectory in some ways mirrors Gemma is Maggie Rizer. Who also seemingly was dropped overnight and went through her own personal struggles, and like Gemma has made sporadic 'comebacks' since then.
     
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  19. dsamg

    dsamg Well-Known Member

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    As a long time member of these forums I would say that the standards required in the industry were much worse 10 years ago than they are now, so it was actually more detrimental to restrict us then than it is now.
     
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  20. billiejbob

    billiejbob Active Member

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    Oh definitely. I completely agree about 10 years ago for sure. I also feel like 10 years ago discussions on weight were far more focussed on individual models ie posting a photo of model when they were at their lowest weight and discussing that specifically as opposed today when we more or less discuss the weight issue as a whole in the industry.
     
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