Prada F/W 2021.22 Milan

[tricotineacetat]

The majority of these looks mirror the menswear from a few weeks back, which is why the outerwear looks as solid here as it did there. I expected those shapes to come back 1:1 and that's exactly what happened after all. Nonetheless, a statement coat that you might be able to wear inside out should be a no-brainer to sell, and the fake fur added nicely to the fabrics already shon during the men's show. Why a perfectly classic pinstriped suit needed to have a bold triangle patch in the back remains a question to me, as it kind of killed the timeless appeal of such a piece.

What I am l less convinced off are the more womenswear-specific pieces, such as the dresses with their awkward lengths and volumes as well as the clunky sock boots. All in all, I find it to be a bit stiff as a womenswear proposition and it's missing the surprise factor which justifies the women's to be a separate show from the men's.

 

[90sFan]

I’m kinda obsessed over the pleated skirts from the SS collection and I’m kinda in love with the brown sequined coat and the first dark faux fur/shearling coat! The good thing about this collaboration is that I recognize the Prada and the Raf and suddenly, the Prada standout against the Raf.

The rest of the collection and the presentation are a non-event for me and it’s kinda sad to watch Marc there, knowing how good he would have been for that!

And Miuccia as chic as always...
I would love to go through her wardrobe!



A slap in the face to Fabio Zambernardi!

I’m kinda obsessed over the pleated skirts from the SS collection and I’m kinda in love with the brown sequined coat and the first dark faux fur/shearling coat! The good thing about this collaboration is that I recognize the Prada and the Raf and suddenly, the Prada standout against the Raf.

The rest of the collection and the presentation are a non-event for me and it’s kinda sad to watch Marc there, knowing how good he would have been for that!

And Miuccia as chic as always...
I would love to go through her wardrobe!



A slap in the face to Fabio Zambernardi!

What do you mean by a slap to Fabio? Do tell!

 

[Lola701]

What do you mean by a slap to Fabio? Do tell!

He is like the 2nd most important person in the design studio. Literally one of the architects of the Prada aesthetic. If for you, having Raf at Prada means he is his heir, that would be the ultimate slap in the face to the only legitimate person able to succeed Miuccia.

Even if some designers tries to mimic as much as they can the « Pradaness », only somebody from Prada can actually do that (we see it with all the different talents coming from the brand).

 

[GivenchyAddict]

^ totally agreed. Manuela and Fabio are the best things that happened to Prada and both are nice. Too bad, Manuela is dead. I feel like she was the one who managed to give proper advice to Miuccia.

Fabio is really good. At some point he really should be at the helm of Prada or Miu Miu.

 

[ah ah]

I am looking at it and trying to understand what kind of woman could wear that. I am clueless. Not sure Raf's contribution is bringing good things to the brand.

 

[YohjiAddict]

It's not bad but my problem with this show is I don't feel the pieces chosen to form an outfit make much sense together, Prada is all about that miraculous talent to make the most random things coalesce into a flawless look...or 40, back in the old days. This is like a dish where the different flavors have not truly blended into each other.

Considering Raf is behind this it could have turned out much worse, not as cold as I feared but his use of bad taste prints feels very self-conscious.

The shoes could definitely be more...outlandish and desirable. Miuccia is a master of materializing her wildest, sexiest fantasies through her shoes, more emphasis should be placed in getting that right.

 

[susseinmcswanny]

The vibe I'm getting here is that they are really trying to shift and move on to a different customer base. To me it seems like they are really leaving out the people who were interested in the brand 10-20 years ago in the moment. They aren't moving forward creating with the same philosophy, but using a new one built on the house of cards of social media. They're looking at the newer and, sorry for being c*nty, but, more shallow people who are into the name and nostalgic aura of Prada. By that I mean the people who only know the brand more recently thru looking at past photos online. The old foundation of design seemed more solid and personal, but now it seems it's just built on thin air social media vibes. It's like bitcoin it's just way up and popular because who tf knows, backed by absolutely nothing. I just don't see these clothes translating into real life that well. They're more for taking pictures with. 1-and-done. I mean I don't see anyone seriously incorporating SS21 into their real life. I've only seen it on people for PR on instagram. Maybe people buying it for the sake of archiving it. With a blank label would anyone desire this stuff??

 

[Overindulgence]

Remember how the documentary, Dior And I, shows how Raf designs via a moodboard he compiles? I'm starting to think that he's just been recycling the same 3 moodboards since 2014 and/or is now using his past collections as the moodboard (if the case is the latter, I'm going to assume he had Dior F/W 2015 on the board for this collection).

 

[WAVES]

a couple of nice coats don’t make a collection...
also, the continuous use of black and print became repetitive and boring especially when we’ve seen similar prints in previous collections... looked so dated and no one wants to wear them... even the hairstyle was so unoriginal... and unflattering but this I know, it’s a personal thing.
mullets are apparently back and they look cooler than this!

also, it lacked that disguised (or not so) sensuality that Prada always has... had... and this for me, remains Prada’s biggest fault of late.
where is the Prada woman? and this is not a Raf’s influence it’s something that Miuccia started to lose if we look at previous collections, unfortunately. he’s just not helping at all. he makes no reverence over a woman’s shape.

so, no one wants to wear Prada... and I get why.

 

[perhydrol]

What exactly makes the clothes sterile? Would seriously like to know... The color sense is there, the fabrics and pattern are there, and so is the presentation. If you want to see sexy, just wait for everything to appear across next season's editorials. It doesn't take much imagination to see a lot of these pieces vamped up with less layers.

This fragment of the post (that really looks like a sponsored review) made me think of the category of sterility. What exactly makes the clothes sterile? I believe this Prada show is the perfect answer in the context of the history of this particular brand. When it comes to the earlier collections designed by Miuccia, I feel like they were designed quite intuitively. Of course, there were ideas that had come from the mind, but every piece had some emotions behind it. Miuccia used to be pretty open about her design process where she would focus on things that she didn't like and made her feel uncomfortable. See, the difference between the old Prada and this new incarnation is not only an aesthetic matter. The new Prada is too intellectual. Miuccia and Raf focus on conversations and answering the questions. It seems to stand in an opposition to the old method because now they overthink and pick some patterns from the archives or create some pieces just for the sake of them being extremely ugly. The process is more like solving a mathematical equation. That is why this show feels sterile. There's no emotion, every piece is there because it has to be sold or to show the intellectual point of view. It looks literally as if it had been designed by AI.

The argument about looking for sexy things, well, isn't Raf a big fan of the total look policy? So far Prada has been using total looks in editorials and they're anything but sexy. And it's not that people look for sexy things and that's why they don't like Raf at Prada. They don't like Raf's Prada because it's not appealing, it's not fresh, it doesn't bring anything new to the table. There are no emotions involved in the design process. Raf literally recycles the same ideas over and over again. But should we be surprised after his terrible tenure at Calvin Klein that almost killed the brand?

 

[Reggie63]

This fragment of the post (that really looks like a sponsored review) made me think of the category of sterility. What exactly makes the clothes sterile? I believe this Prada show is the perfect answer in the context of the history of this particular brand. When it comes to the earlier collections designed by Miuccia, I feel like they were designed quite intuitively. Of course, there were ideas that had come from the mind, but every piece had some emotions behind it. Miuccia used to be pretty open about her design process where she would focus on things that she didn't like and made her feel uncomfortable. See, the difference between the old Prada and this new incarnation is not only an aesthetic matter. The new Prada is too intellectual. Miuccia and Raf focus on conversations and answering the questions. It seems to stand in an opposition to the old method because now they overthink and pick some patterns from the archives or create some pieces just for the sake of them being extremely ugly. The process is more like solving a mathematical equation. That is why this show feels sterile. There's no emotion, every piece is there because it has to be sold or to show the intellectual point of view. It looks literally as if it had been designed by AI.

The argument about looking for sexy things, well, isn't Raf a big fan of the total look policy? So far Prada has been using total looks in editorials and they're anything but sexy. And it's not that people look for sexy things and that's why they don't like Raf at Prada. They don't like Raf's Prada because it's not appealing, it's not fresh, it doesn't bring anything new to the table. There are no emotions involved in the design process. Raf literally recycles the same ideas over and over again. But should we be surprised after his terrible tenure at Calvin Klein that almost killed the brand?

I absolutely agree. Prada always had a message, a commentary about what’s happening in the world right now - things that are important to Miuccia to express through her clothes. I felt that’s where the emotion from her clothes came from, and it was always the basis of ideas her clothes had and the intellectual discourse that the collections inevitably encouraged. Now, the collections are solely relying on Prada (and Dior/JS) éléments that sold well - they don’t have any other message except for “BUY ME!” Miuccia/the brand feels the need to have those post show discussions because she knows that there is no message worth listening to, so the brand has to talk about “Prada-ness” or “is architecture important in fashion?”, or whatever to distract her loyal clients that her clothes don’t have anything important or relevant to say anymore. She’s trying to convince old fans that the brand is still the agenda setting force it was once by creating all this faux intellectual discourse, that the brand isn’t clearly mass market, that it’s still for “the thinking man”.

This circus that it has become is the saddest thing that could have happened to the brand.

 

[susseinmcswanny]

Prada always had a message, a commentary about what’s happening in the world right now

In a way... it is kinda funny that they've become what IS happening in the world now. People brainlessly wanting to buy things. The needing to be liked and in the know. Perhaps maybe this isn't a commentary, but rather the crux of the problem that they would be commenting on otherwise lol. They focus so hard trying to build from the "idea" of Prada, rather than just actually BEING Prada, i.e. whatever Miuccia herself is feeling inside in the moment

 

[Lola701]

I think what was interesting in the discussion was when Marc said that the so called « Pradaness » was about Miuccia and that’s maybe the problem with this new formula...

Raf as a designer never really connected with a women’s audience. His work at Jil Sander was great but really touched a very niche HF audience. And while it wasn’t a fail commercially, it wasn’t a big success either. But from a relevance POV, it put the brand back in the fashion conversation. At Dior, the people buying Dior loved the idea of something fresher but there wasn’t a signature that maintain a relationship with customers. His work at Calvin Klein was also very disturbing for somebody who knew him from Dior or JS.

The magic in a career of a designer is to be able to have women or men following you wherever you go. Men do follow Hedi Slimane wherever he goes. I can admit I’m one of those who follow Nicolas wherever he goes. And there are a lot of designers who have that sort of loyalty from their clients.

I don’t feel like tried to connect with Prada. It’s like because he wears Prada, he believes it’s enough.

Prada is one of those weird brand...I don’t care about the celebrities wearing the brand. The fact that I can imagine Miuccia Prada wear the clothes and accessories is inspiring enough.

The problem with that is that Miuccia wouldn’t wear a lot of that and I don’t think the choices of models shows confidence. Knitted onesies on 15 YO is very MiuMiu. Miuccia would have made it relatable for men or women...

Raf does not design with women in mind I think and it’s maybe one of his weakness. He does not have the comfort of his usual design team and we are getting pieces, clothes...Instead of fashion.

 

[John Bennet]

I can understand holding Prada with solely Miuccia at the helm in high regard. But did you really think that they would be paying Raf very big bucks for him to sit in the backseat and let Miuccia and team carry on with no say from him? What would be the point of the hire? The fact of the matter is, the numbers have been down at Prada for YEARS and they needed to address that. How would promoting Fabio, someone with little recognition to the general public, address that? Do you see what he and Katie have done to Miu Miu?

Fine, you do not like their output as collaborators. Fair. Prada has always been polarizing. But it's a bit unrealistic and pointless to compare these joint collections to the Prada as it once was. And even more unrealistic to demand what you'd like to see out of their collaboration. It was Miuccia's decision to bring Raf on because she knew what he would bring to the table - a change was necessary. You can love Miuccia all you want but know that she herself does not share the undeniable prejudice against Raf that's on display here.

And to bring up his work at Calvin Klein as somehow "killing the brand" is quite laughable. That brand was dead before he came on. No amount of high-profile hire could ever re-train the public to spend high fashion prices on a brand (named "Collection", "205W39NYC" or otherwise) they associate with $20 underwear and outlet shopping especially when the suits in charge could not even recognize that dissonance. It's obvious his work at Calvin served as influential for a lot of designers. KVA @ Berluti, anyone? If you're tired of how influential his aesthetic is... just say that.

 

[perhydrol]

Ok, I get that you're a stan, but laying off 100 people connected to the Raf's 205W39NYC project at Calvin Klein is undeniable. Same with the closure of the flagship in New York. That's exactly his influence, because almost all the CK205W39NYC's visual codes had been taken from the universe of Helmut Lang.

When it comes to Prada, it's obvious that they wanted a change because the numbers have been down. At the same time, they went for Raf who is not known for being customer-friendly. That's why this match is questionable. He can be a great friend of Miuccia, but he's not able to infuse fresh energy to the brand without getting too intellectual. It's been already mentioned that he seems to be stuck with the same three moodboards. At the end of the day nobody cares about the conversations or context. The clothes and accessories really matter.

See, Prada has been stuck with this problem of being too literal and detached from reality for some time now. They think putting logos on everything made of nylon will solve their problems. I'm pretty sure Raf will only make things worse because he's not even that influential anymore. At the beginning of his tenure at Dior he was extremely influential yet customers didn't care. They found his stuff boring and soulless. That's why Dior went for a commercial designer, to recover in terms of sales. Due to that fact, I don't believe he's a good match here with Prada. It's just an ego trip.

When it comes to Fabio, we don't really know what he would do as a co-creative director because he hasn't had any chance to shine. You mentioned Miu Miu, but that brand is known for being under strict control of the head stylist. At Prada, he was under the influence of Prada, I believe he was there to make all the ideas that came from Miuccia real without having any impact. However, we'll never know if he has any solutions to the brand's problems. It's just an unfair situation because he's been working for Prada for so many years yet he got literally stuck.

 

[John Bennet]

Ok, I get that you're a stan, but laying off 100 people connected to the Raf's 205W39NYC project at Calvin Klein is undeniable. Same with the closure of the flagship in New York. That's exactly his influence, because almost all the CK205W39NYC's visual codes had been taken from the universe of Helmut Lang.

I do not disagree that Helmut was huge source of inspiration for Raf's Calvin. The layoffs, while incredibly unfortunate, cannot be assigned to Raf but to the management that allowed this project to even take off in the first place, providing wild funding and then pulling the plug prematurely when they decided it wasn't worth the investment.

I also agree that at the end of the day nobody cares about conversations or context and yet all I see in the collection's criticism is the lack of context, lack of commentary, lack of "prada-ness". When actually it's more likely a reaction to seeing a bomber, a hoodie, or anything overtly "Raf" on the Prada floor. At Dior, the clientele did not match up with his output. Same goes for Calvin... along with the public's association of the brand name. At Prada he won't have those obstacles and I have some optimism based on the collections so far.

I'll have to disagree regarding his level of influence. Pieter at Alaia, Matthieu at Bottega and Raf at Prada clearly demonstrate he and those from his sphere are still influential in high places.

 

[THD96]

We never know if Fabio can be success or not because he never have the opportunity. He could be the next Alessandro, Daniel Lee or Demna. Bring star designers to big brands not always work, we seen it with Raf for Dior & CK, Riccardo for Burberry and Hedi for Celine. Just because a designer with more exposure to the public doesn't mean they will sell more. Hedi still struggle re-create his YSL success despite all the investment LVMH pour into him.

Raf want to sell, that why he took all these jobs. But the reason why he failed because it's feel like he always designed his clothes from an ivory tower totally detached from the core clients of the brands that he work with. He wanted to modernize everything that he touched but instead of bring sophistication and simplicity he just added too much details and make it complicated and impractical. People buy clothes because they want sophistication and elegant not to look complicated.

At Dior, beside his debut couture almost every offerings didn't work because his ideas of feminity is just too contrived, it's just doesn't work for Dior woman because you can inject your POV into Dior but it's always have to be root in true feminity. At Calvin Klein, again he have to try hard and change the the line from "collection" to "205W39NYC", everybody can remembered CKC, 205 it's pretentious and complicated. And he neglected the clients that buy CKC because the line designed by Calvin Klein himself rooted in sexy American sportswear with a touch of luxurious. His weirdly obsession with Andy Warhol, horror and cliché cowboys it the reason for his downfall. CKC line was never about profit, it's there to create an allure for people to buy cheaper stuff. How can you convince people to buy underwear when all you see it's Warhol, accident and horror, how unsexy is that. And again at Prada, Miuccia sense of humor and quirkiness it's been overshadowed by Raf overcomplicate stuff. Why everything have to have the triangle logos in it. And designing at Prada it's tricky because everything have to look like something Miuccia personal wear it herself, and that why Fabio will works because he understand her taste, he help her create what we know as Prada today.

 

[Overindulgence]

Pieter at Alaia, Matthieu at Bottega and Raf at Prada clearly demonstrate he and those from his sphere are still influential in high places.

I agree that he put together a great team of talents (though let's not forget Blazy was at Margiela and Céline, which I think had a larger influence on his hire at Bottega, before he went to CK). However, it is unfortunate to me that the less of this team/sphere that Raf has by his side, the less strong the clothes he puts out seem to become.

I loved Raf and I love Prada so it has been hard to see both of them struggling over the past few years because many people and I want to them to succeed. It's like rooting for your favorite pop star who keeps flopping with each new album release. I'm going to remain hopeful and I find it inspiring that you are. But it is getting harder. When I look at this collection, I don't see Fashion with a capital F but I also don't see easy-to-sell pieces so it just seems to be lacking a clear purpose to me (at least with the Prada Frankenstein collection, I had the comfort of knowing some pieces would sell well nonetheless).

 

[Lola701]

Let’s put things back into perspective regarding the Calvin situation.
Calvin Klein collection was the designer line of Calvin Klein. Mainly a creative bubble aimed at raised the cachet of the brand and maintain it name on the HF discussion. The clothes were barely produced and available but there was a Redcarpet presence.

Raf renamed that line with the ambition of making it a tangible fashion line. On top of that, he was given the keys of the whole house.

He decided to invest all that money in the flagship stores, changed the marketing...etc.
There, we had a clear example of the Suits taking a risks and trying to turn what has become a cash-cow, into a real fashion operation with an empiric structure.

I’m amazed when people say « Oh the Calvin Klein customer is not used to spend that much money on clothes ». The goal was to attract a high fashion customer!
And the aura of his work was supposed to diffuse through the masses for all the lines of CK.

So, if instead of making money after millions of dollars of investments, the designer line isn’t, it’s a failure from him. With the biggest investment being that flagship store!

If Celine today is a lukewarm success, it’s because of Hedi, not the suits. LVMH changed the structure of the brand to suit his expectations as a designer!

Raf had the luxury to do projects with Calvin, that had no relations or whatever with the brand.


And I repeat myself. It’s really pitiful that someone who wears Prada, who respect Miuccia has nothing more to offer than rejects from his own work. Oversized Bomber jackets? Really!

 

[90sFan]

At what point will the brands realize that Raf is only good to do clothes for 16-28 yr old boys. This Prada outing is way better than what he did at Dior/Jil (made them old fashioned and repressed). Calvin was a car crash from day 1 because he can't design something from scratch unless it was worn by "Kraftwerk" "Joy Division" or he steals exact designs from Margiela, and now Demna Gvalsalia Balanciaga (and then he ruins them hahahah).