Virginie Viard - Designer, Creative Director of Chanel

What they needs to do is have a centralized production because the problem is the inconsistency.

I went to one of their subcontractor factories once in Scandicci, a town near Florence in 2018. The factory is invisible on Google Map..They made CF bag only for Chanel, but meanwhile they are producing for Gucci too! I saw around 100 green Dionysus bags ready to ship. I was always wondering why Chanel didn't acquire the factory for exclusive prodution.

BTW they have a mini school inside the factory! They teach everything about making bags! It is better than some stupid bag design courses in fashion schools which charge you $10000 a semester...
 
That really is a huge blow to Chanel's integrity and reputation. And that's a thing in general I really dislike and will never understand; why heritage houses outsource to other countries, regardless of the slave labor, because like... if you claim to be a French house, create in France! Chanel Paris, Saint Laurent Paris, Balenciaga Paris, Maison Margiela Paris. What are you doing? I know Chanel is still mostly made in France, but they're slipping. They're getting caught up with their status as a business with making money and perceived growth.

^^ Which is also causing them to feed on the investment resale market crap. I really do understand buying that special item that everyone thinks is so cool that you love and value so much. But buy it because you like it for yourself... When everything goes to sh*t, who tf are you gonna sell all your "100k" handbags to...?

About the made in France thing, it’s a bit of a difficult story because there’s no textile industry left in France. In Italy, they always had a cheaper labor and real expertise and have promoted their « Made in Italy » fabulously. They have created infrastructures to support their RTW and their industry. Everybody knows that in Italy, the creation and business is in Milan of Rome (at the time for Alta Moda) but the production and the savoir faire was in Florence. And it’s still in essence the same even if there are other facilities all around Italy. In France a lot of those infrastructures died in the 80’s and 90’s. So only big houses could really afford to maintain some infrastructures. A house like YSL for example managed to buy the historic factories that had the licences of the production and distribution of their RTW.

But overall, producing elsewhere is really a matter of cost and savoir faire. In France leatherwork is still artisanal. In Italy, artisans have managed to turn that into something industrial. You see what Zegna did with the production of suits!
The same for India with embroideries. Those women in India have nothing to envy on the seamstresses of Lesage when it comes to pure savoir faire. What Lesage have in it sleeves is the research, the innovation.

For me the production sites is not an issue but really the consistency. That being said, some brands are really out of order. Balenciaga produces things in China and Tunisia…It’s just fooling people for me.
 
^^^^^
Further to the above:
as long as things are produced in Italy, there's no harm for me, it's not like they are exploiting cheap labour, Italy has a long tradition of very specialized textile areas (Biella for the wools, Como for the silks, Tuscany for leather goods, Vicenza and Vigevano for shoes...and so on). That said, what carries the label Made in Italy is, often, for the most part, made somewhere else cheaper, because of outdated and, IMO, outrageous manufacturing regulations that still allow companies to do so. In addition, what is produced and labelled as Made in Italy, has occasionally been proved to be produced by subcontractors using underpaid illegal immigrants.
To me it all comes down to transparency: you can produce in China or Eastern EU if you like, but you have to make it clear to customers, it is ultimately their choice to decide if their money is worth the asking price. In addition, Made in China alone is not synonym of cheap quality anymore, and it's not been for years now, but again I would like, as a customer, to be able to decide for myself without being tricked by ambiguous or flagrantly mendacious labeling.
 
Made in China alone is not synonym of cheap quality anymore, and it's not been for years now,
I beg to differ.
I will give you one example. Back in the days when microwaves were made in Japan, Germany, and the USA, they were all long-lasting. I recently went on Amazon and I couldn't find a single microwave made outside of China. As a result, it took me three separate orders with three different microwaves to have one that actually functioned upon unpacking. Unreal. To the consumer the cost is actually higher and quality worse: From the environmental waste my three online order produced to the shorter lifespan of the products. Everyone is worse off.

Take fast fashion as another example. Aside from more environmental waste what else do we accomplish?
 
There are billions of products which are made in China, from the tiniest stuff to shield tunneling machine(for building metro or tunnel)..It is such a large scale so there must be mixing quality issues.

OK back to the topic, in the field of sneakers and athletic shoes, Made in China is better than Made in Italy now. Because Nike and Adidas have been producing their shoes there for a few decades, the manufactories are experienced ENOUGH. Some Nike models (eg. running shoes) could have more than 10 high-tech patent technologies in one sigle model. Right now Made in Italy sneaker means almost retro style only because it's about the look/design only and not about patent technology for shoes.

BTW, Chanel sneakers are most horrible ever....so outdated.
 
There are billions of products which are made in China, from the tiniest stuff to shield tunneling machine(for building metro or tunnel)..It is such a large scale so there must be mixing quality issues.

OK back to the topic, in the field of sneakers and athletic shoes, Made in China is better than Made in Italy now. Because Nike and Adidas have been producing their shoes there for a few decades, the manufactories are experienced ENOUGH. Some Nike models (eg. running shoes) could have more than 10 high-tech patent technologies in one sigle model. Right now Made in Italy sneaker means almost retro style only because it's about the look/design only and not about patent technology for shoes.

BTW, Chanel sneakers are most horrible ever....so outdated.
A running joke in our household:
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upload_2022-1-3_15-35-21.png

(side note: the Nike patents are largely made in USA...it's like what Lola said above...Lesage's strength is its innovation. )
 
I went to one of their subcontractor factories once in Scandicci, a town near Florence in 2018. The factory is invisible on Google Map..They made CF bag only for Chanel, but meanwhile they are producing for Gucci too! I saw around 100 green Dionysus bags ready to ship. I was always wondering why Chanel didn't acquire the factory for exclusive prodution.

I read article about one of a factory from this city. The owner a very often got the offers sell factory from fashion houses, but they are proud and refuse. Job for the various company get opportunity to use different technics.

Plus, more and more people are starting to realize birkins are just beanie babies for rich people. It's a bag. Not an investment. That bubble is going to f*cking explode sooner or later

The idea buying bag as investment was created by auction houses. Christies and Sotheby's did it before with art. Buying art as investment is XX century idea. In reality the majority art pices buying as investment ends its life in freeports huge warehouse which is free of tax, a lot of people never saw this masterpice which they bought...They need new market - handbags, accessories and clothes are easy to sell. During divorces or inheritance case people a very rare fight about this kind of stuff. Moreover, that are not subject to laws of various kinds that restrict the export of works of art or other valuable items abroad.

Here is gripping article about a new Hermes factory and how long process it is.

Inside the Hermès Workshop That Makes Its Iconic Bags
At the new Hermès workshop in Saint-Vincent-de-Paul, France, the Kelly serves as a training ground for freshly minted leather artisans.
By Alexis Cheung

September 16, 2021
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Hermès artisans in the new Saint-Vincent-de-Paul workshop.Photograph by Cyril Zannettacci.

There is a kind of fashion object so long-lasting, so tirelessly wanted that its name becomes recognizable, a metonym for the brand that made it: the Air Jordan, the Love bracelet. Few brands, successful though they may be, attain that kind of saturation. Hermès has done it twice: the Birkin and, arguably the first of the household-name phenomena, the Kelly. Originally designed in the 1930s as the Petit sac haut, à courroie, simplifié, the Kelly was rechristened after the newly crowned Princess Grace was photographed, in 1956, clutching it to conceal her early pregnancy; the image appeared on the cover of Life magazine.

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The Kelly, pictured here, comprises 36 pieces of leather and takes up to 20 hours for an artisan to complete.Photograph by Cyril Zannettacci.
But in the Hermès artisan workshops, the vaunted bag isn’t a waiting list status symbol, it’s an education: Usually the first item newly minted leather artisans construct, it serves as a leatherwork 101. “The Kelly bag is one of the most complex bags we have in terms of our savoir faire, or know-how, which is really based on the tradition of saddlery and harnesses,” says Olivier Fournier, executive vice president of compliance and organization development at Hermès International, who oversees the company’s sustainable development. With its crisp top flap, shoulder strap, and ladylike single handle (the most easily spotted differentiating feature from the double-handled Birkin), it requires 36 pieces of leather, a handful of metal parts, and 15 to 20 hours for one artisan to complete. Mastery of the Kelly means mastery over virtually every other Hermès bag design.

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Buckles and other hardware are attached by hand.Photograph by Cyril Zannettacci.
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Photograph by Cyril Zannettacci.
Indeed, at Hermès so much depends upon a single stitch, taut and tensile, with almost 200 years of tradition. And if each stitch represents a sentence in Hermès’s history, which began when the German-born harness maker Thierry Hermès founded the company in Paris in 1837, then its manufacturing workshops are the grammar guiding their syntax. These workshops—of which there are 51 in France alone, each dedicated to women’s ready-to-wear, perfume, shoes, jewelry, menswear, silk, or home furnishings—are spaces where standards and techniques are passed down and preserved.

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Craftsmen spend 18 months learning the craft, and spend 8 years working towards the title of master artisan.Photograph by Cyril Zannettacci.
Perhaps nowhere is this marriage of craft and legacy more apparent than at the company’s newest leather workshop, or maroquinerie, which opened this September in the pastoral village of Saint-Vincent-de-Paul, on the outskirts of Bordeaux. Not far from the city center or the terroirs teeming with grapevines, a group of 180 artisans (a number that will swell to more than 250 once training and recruiting is complete) can be found selecting, cutting, perfecting, burnishing—and yes, stitching—yards of supple leathers into any one of Hermès’s signature bags, all exclusively made in France. “Making a bag is demanding in terms of time and skills,” says a Saint-Vincent-de-Paul leather artisan named Emilie, who joined Hermès in 2015. “There’s a little bit of our soul in each bag.”

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The first Hermès leather workshop opened at the flagship store in Paris in 1880.PHOTOGRAPH BY CYRIL ZANNETTACCI.
The leather workshops can be traced to 24 rue du Faubourg Saint-Honoré, where Thierry Hermès’s only son, Charles-Émile, opened its flagship store in 1880. The first location outside of Paris opened near Lyon more than 100 years later, in 1989, and the next site came in Pantin in 1992. (All brands self-reference, but Hermès’s version is particularly cyclic; artistic director of women’s ready-to-wear Nadège Vanhee-Cybulski showed a poncho in her spring 2019 collection with a waistline based on the aprons worn at the Pantin site.)

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“Every single gesture has its importance,” says one Hermes artisan. “It requires constant concentration so as to not miss anything.”Photograph by Cyril Zannettacci.
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Photograph by Cyril Zannettacci.
“We have stuck for centuries now to a craftsmanship model because we strongly believe that to have the quality and the durability we want in our leather goods, we need this artisan approach,” explains Fournier. The company maxim, “Luxury is that which can be repaired” (set forth by former CEO Robert Dumas-Hermès), comes to life at the workshops as well: Each year, at 15 dedicated repair shops worldwide, Hermès mends up to 120,000 of its own pieces, from a worn shoulder strap to a decades-old saddle; on rare occasions an artisan might even fix a handbag they crafted more than 30 years prior.

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Spools of thread.Photograph by Cyril Zannettacci.
“Craftsmanship is based on transmission,” Fournier says. With every new workshop opening, a handful of the house’s 80 master trainers—a position that requires eight years of work at Hermès to attain—travel to teach a new generation of artisans. It’s a demanding pedagogy, one that takes 18 months to complete and happens in two phases: The first is verbal, and the second is “at the bench,” when artisans apply their new learnings under the watchful eyes of one of 200 designated mentors.

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Scenes from the training workshop.PHOTOGRAPH BY CYRIL ZANNETTACCI.
At Saint-Vincent-de-Paul, each artisan—many of whom are locals hired through vocational schools and employment offices, often with little experience in leatherwork—uses more than a dozen tools but soon learns that the meticulous attention to detail inherent in an Hermès objet begins with their body. On any given morning, groups of artisans can be found flexing their toes, swaying their arms, and bending their knees, the workshop appearing more like a class for modern dance than a lesson in leatherwork. “Every single gesture has its importance,” says Emilie. “It requires constant concentration so as to not miss anything.” The angle of the hips, the lean of the torso, the pressure of the hands—all affect the final aesthetic outcome.

Mastery of the Kelly means mastery over virtually every other Hermès bag design.

Despite this staunch adherence to tradition, Hermès will introduce a decidedly modern material this fall: mycelium leather. Developed in collaboration with the San Francisco-based biotech company MycoWorks, this “Fine Mycelium,” coined Sylvania by its creators, derives not from cattle but from mushrooms. Fournier insists that its quality and durability meet the same high standards of traditional leathers and that the material continues Hermès’s long legacy of innovation—it was, after all, Thierry’s grandson Émile-Maurice Hermès who introduced the zipper to handbags in 1922.

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Once finished, the bags await further packaging.

PHOTOGRAPH BY CYRIL ZANNETTACCI.
“We strongly believe that we should not oppose new technology with what we do with the hands and tradition,” says Fournier. “Both are compatible.” Plus, he adds, “It’s a fantastic opportunity for creation, to play with new materials.” (For now, this particular play is reserved for the Victoria handbag from the autumn/winter 2021 collection, constructed at a workshop of its own.)
vanityfair.com
 
^ Very interesting that they start the makers on something so difficult!

^^^^^
Further to the above:
as long as things are produced in Italy, there's no harm for me, it's not like they are exploiting cheap labour, Italy has a long tradition of very specialized textile areas (Biella for the wools, Como for the silks, Tuscany for leather goods, Vicenza and Vigevano for shoes...and so on). That said, what carries the label Made in Italy is, often, for the most part, made somewhere else cheaper, because of outdated and, IMO, outrageous manufacturing regulations that still allow companies to do so. In addition, what is produced and labelled as Made in Italy, has occasionally been proved to be produced by subcontractors using underpaid illegal immigrants.
To me it all comes down to transparency: you can produce in China or Eastern EU if you like, but you have to make it clear to customers, it is ultimately their choice to decide if their money is worth the asking price. In addition, Made in China alone is not synonym of cheap quality anymore, and it's not been for years now, but again I would like, as a customer, to be able to decide for myself without being tricked by ambiguous or flagrantly mendacious labeling.

Made in the USA can be the same, and I've seen it with my own eyes (at a Dickey's factory--you probably realize for other reasons you should not buy their stuff--but don't). Sweatshops exist here too, though you're probably better off here than in the 3rd world where basic safety regulations aren't enforced ...
 
I actually met many Chinese textile manufacturers (dozens of small subcontractors of Japanese brands) who bragged about their product qualities capable of competing with the average "Made in Italy" products. There is some truth in it thanks to the advancement of technologies and the mature skilled workers(who sometimes are even "being exported" to Italy), so it is actually not that difficult to produce high-quality "Made in China" textile goods(which I can tell you that they are better than those average high fashion brands labeled "Made in Italy or EU", of course, but never in the artisanal way of Italian/french tradition!
 
Sorry for the off-topic, I didn't mean to diminish Virginie and this is her thread. But I did enjoy those interesting discussions/insights from the above members than reading anything about the designer.
 
I actually met many Chinese textile manufacturers (dozens of small subcontractors of Japanese brands) who bragged about their product qualities capable of competing with the average "Made in Italy" products. There is some truth in it thanks to the advancement of technologies and the mature skilled workers(who sometimes are even "being exported" to Italy), so it is actually not that difficult to produce high-quality "Made in China" textile goods(which I can tell you that they are better than those average high fashion brands labeled "Made in Italy or EU", of course, but never in the artisanal way of Italian/french tradition!
often times though it's not whether they can or not. it is whether the mothership wants to use the same quality control before outsourcing. When you start to chase bottom line all bets are off.
The old artisan way is to maximize product quality, innovation, and exclusivity with long term greed, which is the opposite of quarter over quarter eps beat/miss mentality publicly traded companies go after.
 
Chanel set to stage its next Métiers d’Art collection in Dakar, Senegal on December 6th 2022:

 
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Look 60 of Chanel Pre-Fall 2020 feather jacket. Price is €96000. The most expensive item from VV ( please corret me if you have more info).

There are only 3 items which are more expensive than this: two from Hamburg collection (one dress for €98800 and one jacket for €125520) and one from Egypt collection( dress for €98950).

Photo source: CHANEL lookbook
 
It makes sense since Senegal has a history with France, so I guessed where they make that connection.

It's a good idea, just wish it happened during Karl's years. At least he could add some humor and an interesting take on the culture without being heavy-handed. Now they have to waste this opportunity on the mediocrity of Virginie.

What's funny to me is that, if the rich people of Senegal want to buy this collection, they have to fly to all the way to Europe because Chanel has no rtw store in the country (or the continent for that matter).
 
I’m very excited for the show in Dakar rather than the collection itself. Why Metiers d’Arts tho?
It’s a winter collection and December is literally at the beginning of the very heat temperatures.

Senegal makes sense because it’s the only country in sub-Saharan Africa, out of the French speaking countries, that has what can be close to be called a fashion industry. At least in terms of textiles and clothes-making, they are the most developed. French people loves to go to Senegal too.

We had the discussion about the accessibility of luxury brands when they showed in Cuba. I hope this at least will help push for more availability of the beauty. I think the best way for those brands to enter the continent is through beauty.

Just the idea of the currency of a Chanel bag in FCFA gives me a heartache!
 
Senegal? Are they just throwing their Chanel darts on a Chanel map of the world and hoping that something sticks?
Maybe that sounds weird but as @Lola701 mentioned, lots of characteristic patterned fabrics such as Kente (Ghana), Shweshwe (South Africa), Kitenge (Zambia), Baoule (Cote D’Ivoire), Ankara (Nigeria). They should invite local talents to cooperate.
 

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