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Boys And The Hoodie
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PrinceOfCats
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I'm a bit of a philistine so I probably wouldn't know about that...
in seoul, every single guy aged 15-25 was walking around wearing a hoodie last winter.
at first i thought it was cute, but it got annoying after a while..
everyone had the same getup :
zip up hoodie under a motorcycle jacket or a blazer
huge belt, faded jeans and puma sneakers
von dutch-ish hat and a huge bag.
eww.
at first i thought it was cute, but it got annoying after a while..
everyone had the same getup :
zip up hoodie under a motorcycle jacket or a blazer
huge belt, faded jeans and puma sneakers
von dutch-ish hat and a huge bag.
eww.
Further to the background on the reasons for my posting the original article .
The trials of living with the feral youths of Salford
[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]In a week when yob culture has come to the fore, the Guardian visits a fear-ridden community where gang violence is out of control[/font]
[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Riazat Butt
Saturday May 21, 2005
The Guardian
[/font][font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]On the wall of a spit-and-sawdust Salford pub hangs a hand-written notice reminding customers that glasses or bottles should not be taken off the premises. But Dave, the landlord, has more than that to worry about: underneath the piece of A4 is a bullet hole.
In January, three teenagers barged their way into the pub. One had a knife, another had a gun. Dave, 48, wrestled the gunman to the ground, but during the tussle a shot was fired, leaving the hole in the wall. The lads escaped with £250. Nobody has been arrested.
[/font]The government's pledge to create safe communities and foster a culture of respect cannot come soon enough.
Dave says: "Kids are out of order. It's on their own doorstep and they're so blatant. They're playing on this climate of fear. If you grass someone up, kids slash your tyres and smash your windows. They've no respect. They don't care about anybody but themselves."
His words echo those of Chief Superintendent David Baines of Greater Manchester police, who earlier this week warned that gangs of "feral youths" were running wild, with no fear of the police or the criminal justice system.
His comments came in the wake of the vicious attack on a father of four, Phil Carroll, 48, who was beaten outside his Salford home after he confronted youths who were throwing stones at his car.
Gang-related violence in British cities has made people like Dave wary of the young. "They've all got the same uniform and we've barred loads because of the way they look. They wear hooded tops with Schott written on the back.
"We had a three-week period with 60 teenagers coming here. I don't know where from. We couldn't find out how old they were because not all of them had ID."
Dave installed CCTV in his pub, but not in the toilets, where bags of cocaine have been found in the cisterns.
"Salford was very friendly when I was young, we knew all our neighbours and we left our back door open. Not anymore. My dad is 80 and someone put his porch windows through because they were drunk. You don't want trouble at that age. It's wanton vandalism."
There are others in the pub with tales to tell.
Derek, 64, is an ex-convict, but has been straight for 40 years. He lives with wife Agnes. They do not walk home from the pub. They catch a taxi and the fare is always £1.70.
"I was never as bad as these kids. I see them driving up and down the street at night. You can't see their faces. They're coming out with shooters and knives and they're terrorising people. They can't hold their ale or they're high as kites. They've no respect for you if you're over 25. That's why people my age are scared to go out."
One night, a man with a machete was outside Derek's house. He called the police, but they never arrived. When someone slashed the tyres on his wife's car, the police came three days later.
"Breaking the law means nothing to these kids. Even prisons aren't a deterrent, and don't get me started on the police. A man can be kicked to death in the street and the thugs can't be identified because they're too young? They should be named and shamed.
"Being put away for a year isn't enough, because you're out in six months. Nobody should get battered for defending their property. But if you stand up for yourself you're not just taking on one kid, you're taking on the whole gang." He puffs away on his roll-up and stares into his pint. "You can get away with murder."
Some younger drinkers are enjoying themselves at a friend's party in the back room. James, who is celebrating his birthday, believes that there are three rules for survival.
"Don't ask questions, don't give any cheek and don't grass anyone up. Nobody works in Salford. All the money comes from drugs. The attitude is if you can't beat them, join them. If you can't get a job, you've got no choice, and making money from crime is easy. Why should you work and pay taxes?
"When the younger ones hang round in street gangs they see what the older ones are doing and follow suit. There's no way out. I'm only 20, but I'm on the run from the police."
Salford, like any other city in England, has good and bad sides. In some areas there is an unshakeable sense of community spirit and people who would take you in off the streets. In other places there is nothing but derelict buildings and wrought iron gates.
Who you know can make a difference to your life, which is why 57-year-old Nigel has no problems with "feral" kids. He lives on the Ordsall estate and is part of a prominent local family. "Kids know not to mither me," he says.
Nigel jokes that he has had more porridge than the three bears, but he, like Derek, is disturbed by what is happening.
"Kids take advantage of the weaker ones. They've nothing to do and nowhere to go. It's boredom. If they get a club it's shut within a week. They burned the library and the hairdressers down. The post office has closed. Heroin is a problem too. I've seen kids running past my house with big bags of brown, and there are needles everywhere.
"Kids are closing their own amenities. Getting into the bookies is like getting into Fort Knox. Even the Bank of England doesn't have that much security."
A few hundreds yards from his neatly decorated home is a shell of a precinct where all but two shops have closed. Yet each business has grilles on the windows and doors and there are craggy concrete slabs and metal bollards to stop ramraiders from destroying what is left.
"The police don't come into this estate unless it's to nick someone. Salford is my heart and soul", says Nigel, "but I'm from the old firm; I've got time for the elderly and I don't do it to my own."
Kids who have nothing to aspire to at school or home look forward to joining a bigger gang. It is like a graduation.
Norman Brooke, 56, works for Marpol Securities. It is Greater Manchester's largest independent security company, employing 300 people across the region. Staff guard antenatal clinics, schools, doctors' and dental surgeries.
"Some places won't open unless there's someone on the door. We have grown men ringing, terrified, because kids are bricking their houses."
Norman was a police officer for 30 years, he was born in Salford, and he understands the current climate. "These kids are deprived of quality of life and expectation. Their parents bucked the system. The hand-out culture encourages this behaviour. Getting a job is like selling out. but getting an Asbo is a badge of honour.
"There's a majority of law-abiding citizens and there's a minority of troublemakers. If you took them off the streets, there'd be no crime. Thing is that this minority is in more pockets of Salford. "Education is the key, but we have to get them while they're at nursery. Once they're teenagers it's too late."
[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]
[/font]
The trials of living with the feral youths of Salford
[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]In a week when yob culture has come to the fore, the Guardian visits a fear-ridden community where gang violence is out of control[/font]
[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Riazat Butt
Saturday May 21, 2005
The Guardian
[/font][font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]On the wall of a spit-and-sawdust Salford pub hangs a hand-written notice reminding customers that glasses or bottles should not be taken off the premises. But Dave, the landlord, has more than that to worry about: underneath the piece of A4 is a bullet hole.
In January, three teenagers barged their way into the pub. One had a knife, another had a gun. Dave, 48, wrestled the gunman to the ground, but during the tussle a shot was fired, leaving the hole in the wall. The lads escaped with £250. Nobody has been arrested.
[/font]The government's pledge to create safe communities and foster a culture of respect cannot come soon enough.
Dave says: "Kids are out of order. It's on their own doorstep and they're so blatant. They're playing on this climate of fear. If you grass someone up, kids slash your tyres and smash your windows. They've no respect. They don't care about anybody but themselves."
His words echo those of Chief Superintendent David Baines of Greater Manchester police, who earlier this week warned that gangs of "feral youths" were running wild, with no fear of the police or the criminal justice system.
His comments came in the wake of the vicious attack on a father of four, Phil Carroll, 48, who was beaten outside his Salford home after he confronted youths who were throwing stones at his car.
Gang-related violence in British cities has made people like Dave wary of the young. "They've all got the same uniform and we've barred loads because of the way they look. They wear hooded tops with Schott written on the back.
"We had a three-week period with 60 teenagers coming here. I don't know where from. We couldn't find out how old they were because not all of them had ID."
Dave installed CCTV in his pub, but not in the toilets, where bags of cocaine have been found in the cisterns.
"Salford was very friendly when I was young, we knew all our neighbours and we left our back door open. Not anymore. My dad is 80 and someone put his porch windows through because they were drunk. You don't want trouble at that age. It's wanton vandalism."
There are others in the pub with tales to tell.
Derek, 64, is an ex-convict, but has been straight for 40 years. He lives with wife Agnes. They do not walk home from the pub. They catch a taxi and the fare is always £1.70.
"I was never as bad as these kids. I see them driving up and down the street at night. You can't see their faces. They're coming out with shooters and knives and they're terrorising people. They can't hold their ale or they're high as kites. They've no respect for you if you're over 25. That's why people my age are scared to go out."
One night, a man with a machete was outside Derek's house. He called the police, but they never arrived. When someone slashed the tyres on his wife's car, the police came three days later.
"Breaking the law means nothing to these kids. Even prisons aren't a deterrent, and don't get me started on the police. A man can be kicked to death in the street and the thugs can't be identified because they're too young? They should be named and shamed.
"Being put away for a year isn't enough, because you're out in six months. Nobody should get battered for defending their property. But if you stand up for yourself you're not just taking on one kid, you're taking on the whole gang." He puffs away on his roll-up and stares into his pint. "You can get away with murder."
Some younger drinkers are enjoying themselves at a friend's party in the back room. James, who is celebrating his birthday, believes that there are three rules for survival.
"Don't ask questions, don't give any cheek and don't grass anyone up. Nobody works in Salford. All the money comes from drugs. The attitude is if you can't beat them, join them. If you can't get a job, you've got no choice, and making money from crime is easy. Why should you work and pay taxes?
"When the younger ones hang round in street gangs they see what the older ones are doing and follow suit. There's no way out. I'm only 20, but I'm on the run from the police."
Salford, like any other city in England, has good and bad sides. In some areas there is an unshakeable sense of community spirit and people who would take you in off the streets. In other places there is nothing but derelict buildings and wrought iron gates.
Who you know can make a difference to your life, which is why 57-year-old Nigel has no problems with "feral" kids. He lives on the Ordsall estate and is part of a prominent local family. "Kids know not to mither me," he says.
Nigel jokes that he has had more porridge than the three bears, but he, like Derek, is disturbed by what is happening.
"Kids take advantage of the weaker ones. They've nothing to do and nowhere to go. It's boredom. If they get a club it's shut within a week. They burned the library and the hairdressers down. The post office has closed. Heroin is a problem too. I've seen kids running past my house with big bags of brown, and there are needles everywhere.
"Kids are closing their own amenities. Getting into the bookies is like getting into Fort Knox. Even the Bank of England doesn't have that much security."
A few hundreds yards from his neatly decorated home is a shell of a precinct where all but two shops have closed. Yet each business has grilles on the windows and doors and there are craggy concrete slabs and metal bollards to stop ramraiders from destroying what is left.
"The police don't come into this estate unless it's to nick someone. Salford is my heart and soul", says Nigel, "but I'm from the old firm; I've got time for the elderly and I don't do it to my own."
Kids who have nothing to aspire to at school or home look forward to joining a bigger gang. It is like a graduation.
Norman Brooke, 56, works for Marpol Securities. It is Greater Manchester's largest independent security company, employing 300 people across the region. Staff guard antenatal clinics, schools, doctors' and dental surgeries.
"Some places won't open unless there's someone on the door. We have grown men ringing, terrified, because kids are bricking their houses."
Norman was a police officer for 30 years, he was born in Salford, and he understands the current climate. "These kids are deprived of quality of life and expectation. Their parents bucked the system. The hand-out culture encourages this behaviour. Getting a job is like selling out. but getting an Asbo is a badge of honour.
"There's a majority of law-abiding citizens and there's a minority of troublemakers. If you took them off the streets, there'd be no crime. Thing is that this minority is in more pockets of Salford. "Education is the key, but we have to get them while they're at nursery. Once they're teenagers it's too late."
[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]
[/font]
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PrinceOfCats
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There are plenty of restaurants that won't let you in without a black tie, plenty of clubs that bar trainers and so on...what's new, Kim?
PrinceOfCats said:
Of course there are. But you're going off a bit, we're talking here about a question related to our SOCIETY. We all live in it. As opposed to some clubs and bars, where if we don't agree with their rules, we can opt not to take part in it.
When it comes to our society, not being allowed to wear what we want is EXTREMELY ridiculous.
PrinceOfCats
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screenage said:
Because the Tories are just so good at diffusing violent situations. I mean look at Margaret Thatcher's handling of Northen Ireland. Getting yourself nearly blown up - political genius!
Lena the teenage rebel, eh?
PrinceOfCats
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Kimkhuu said:
But hoodies are being banned in one large shopping centre, not in 'society'
Who's proposing a hoodie ban, or any kind of ban, in society?
see, this shopping center now, next town shopping center tomorrow, goes like that no your highness? Its the social issue that we are facing here, not the actual event..
and yes, sure Lena not-the-teanage-rebel much more like it ...erhhm thank you very much
and yes, sure Lena not-the-teanage-rebel much more like it ...erhhm thank you very much
PrinceOfCats
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screenage said:
And evidently from his grasp of such subtle arguments as 'Let's kick these bloody foreign Muslims/Gypsies/Poles/Czechs/Liberals/Labour-voters out of our country', Howard is just the man to solve the problem of youth violence with political tact and finesse?
People are scared of something different or new...something odd to them....Like the headscarves that we muslim women wear. and now hoodies in some places...They don't like being scared...they want to be in power, so they figure lets get rid of these people or atleast what they are wearing. Maybe then, they'll be more like us, more "civilised".
don't you just love their reasoning.
don't you just love their reasoning.
so in other words, we alll have to be the same....nobody can be different in any shape, way or form...or else they'll be regarded as an "alien" or a "terrorist".Johnny said:
is it my fault that people are racist and prejudice towards me because of my religious beliefs? Have I hurt anybody? Have I broken the law? I'm only 16 years old...and they're trying to punish other girls like me, just because we're "different".
ok sorry, had to go on that rant...it just pisses me off to see people so close-minded.
PrinceOfCats
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yoti said:
Britain is a secular state. That is our culture. In some places, such as a state school, is it not both slightly disrespectful and divisive to deliberately show yourself as not part of that culture? If an atheist visits a Church/Mosque/Temple they should respect the traditions of that religion so if a theist visits a secular place they should respect that also.
