Designer & Fashion Insiders Behavior (PLEASE READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING)

[Salvatore]

Bring back the scathing reviews so bad you get banned ! Drama ! Lol

No, but seriously, I really appreciate some journalists that are consistent in their critiques, which not that many exist due to the reasons you stated. And influencers do annoy me with their peacocking and preening, but I guess I have accepted them. I guess they didn’t need to be mocked, but honestly far worse things could have been said so I don’t know. Fashion needs an overhaul in some many sectors of it.

 

[MulletProof]

^ yes! the 'oh you banned me? I'll watch your show ONLINE and write even worse s*it about it then!'.

I guess it's expected that characters like this one will center themselves on the criticism to build a whole pit for cheerleaderism lol, that is their whole brand [me, and my selfies, and myself, and fashion.. on me], but seriously... why? it seems like a pretty blatant move to elevate and formalize this category of 'cheerleaders who suck up to brands'. Of course it's not like all shows will follow but you further validate it and it's.. not a great sign. It exists, and it's worse than ever [the amount of people given Celine and even Chanel junk for free these days.... ] but one thing is to be this desperate and something else is to package your desperation.

 

[GivenchyAddict]

This whole debate again?

Honestly, shows and invitations have a whole ecosystem and organisation that no one should spend time trying to understand. This is business.

Brands spend their money on shows and are allowed to invite anyone they deem interesting. They invite influencers for specific reasons and journalists for others ones. No one should feel granted to have a seat or not, and no one is allowed to question the right of x person to attend the show.

They were not pleased to be next to bloggers/influencers, Gucci had a whole pit for them. So everyone should be pleased, no?

BryanBoy said valid points and I think for someone who should be as important as Lisa Armstrong (in the journalistic field), it was childish and unnecessary.

I don't mind at all the influencers who are usually grateful and appreciative of being there whereas the fashion "insiders' are full-on being blasé and putting on an annoyed face.

The amount of them sleeping behind their glasses or on their phone...

HOWEVER, the celebrities I can't. Will never forget the anxiety I got from the crazy fans of Lisa or the security of J Balvin for example.

 

[velvetandsilk]

I've always been fascinated by the fact that fashion study in the academic world is somehow disconnected from the mainstream fashion world. A handful of scholars go to fashion shows sometimes, and I think this is the main reason why if you want to do it critically, you have limited opportunities for criticism. Fashion criticism died when newspapers unrelated to the fashion world closed their fashion columns.

 

[Deleted member 116957]

Bring back the scathing reviews so bad you get banned ! Drama ! Lol

Okay, this summer I spent (too much) time browsing the WWD archives for "fun" and that was one of my favourite things about it. Reading about which journalists have been banned from which shows for criticism (mild to harsh), some of those journalists/designers weren't holding back lmao. Modern designers WISH they could sound as unhinged on Instagram as Yves Saint Laurent did in a telegram to Eugenia Sheppard.

Edit: I had to find the article from WWD with it, lmaoooo. It made me laugh SO hard when I first read it.



WWD Archive (Feb 17, 1977)

 

[GivenchyHomme]

I still remember that drama between Kathy Horyn and ODLR. Talk about dramatic!

Cathy Horyn Oscar De La Renta- Hot Dog Meaning

cathy-horyn-will-say-it-to-your-face

We really need more people like her to tell it like it is!

 

[Lola701]

Okay, this summer I spent (too much) time browsing the WWD archives for "fun" and that was one of my favourite things about it. Reading about which journalists have been banned from which shows for criticism (mild to harsh), some of those journalists/designers weren't holding back lmao. Modern designers WISH they could sound as unhinged on Instagram as Yves Saint Laurent did in a telegram to Eugenia Sheppard.

But what was great at the time was that journalists were an important part of the eco-system, much like magazine editors because the fashion industry was a microcosm.

When I started working in fashion in the early 00’s journalists had a tremendous importance because their opinion of a collection had actual impact on the sales of a season and it needs to be said, the relationship between journalists in fashion was similar to the ones in politics with politicians. Cathy Horyn, Suzy Menkes, Janie Samet, Marie Christiane Marek, Tim Blanks and others had dinners with designers, were received in the studios, talked to the CEO’s. Someone like Bernard Arnault had an adviser like Jean Jacques Picard to make him understand the game of fashion.

Today, those designers don’t have any relationships with journalists. Who cares about being banned today? The eco-system is totally different because everybody has some kind of understanding of fashion and doesn’t need a journalist to analyze something.

Virginie Mouzat declared recently that she overreacted to the Tom Ford collection she trashed 10 years ago but that review had an impact on his career.

I think what Lisa Amstrong needs to maybe think about is her position as a fashion journalist in that eco-system. Because yes, today people will pay attention to something because she did her little rant but when she praises what was showed during LFW, nobody cares…Because nobody cares about LFW anyway. That’s the issue. She has no influence anymore. Her review was a « papier d’humeur » at best.

 

[Salvatore]

And let’s not forget the KING of Designers Dragging Journalists … Hedi !
Hedi Slimane v Cathy Horyn: the story behind a fashion spat | Saint Laurent | The Guardian

The industry is so different now and while I like things more civil, I don’t like it at the expense of creativity and resting on your laurels. So many people are soft in these days.

 

[Deleted member 116957]

But what was great at the time was that journalists were an important part of the eco-system, much like magazine editors because the fashion industry was a microcosm.

When I started working in fashion in the early 00’s journalists had a tremendous importance because their opinion of a collection had actual impact on the sales of a season and it needs to be said, the relationship between journalists in fashion was similar to the ones in politics with politicians. Cathy Horyn, Suzy Menkes, Janie Samet, Marie Christiane Marek, Tim Blanks and others had dinners with designers, were received in the studios, talked to the CEO’s. Someone like Bernard Arnault had an adviser like Jean Jacques Picard to make him understand the game of fashion.

Today, those designers don’t have any relationships with journalists. Who cares about being banned today? The eco-system is totally different because everybody has some kind of understanding of fashion and doesn’t need a journalist to analyze something.

Virginie Mouzat declared recently that she overreacted to the Tom Ford collection she trashed 10 years ago but that review had an impact on his career.

I think what Lisa Amstrong needs to maybe think about is her position as a fashion journalist in that eco-system. Because yes, today people will pay attention to something because she did her little rant but when she praises what was showed during LFW, nobody cares…Because nobody cares about LFW anyway. That’s the issue. She has no influence anymore. Her review was a « papier d’humeur » at best.

Oh, exactly!!! I think what was also fascinating for me was to read the comments about collections from the buyers!! Reading about that "eco-system" worked was really fascinating. Although, I do think the concept of "criticism" is kind of dead in a lot of fields, not just fashion. I mean, you have authors who go into hysterics when they get bad reviews on a site like GoodReads. It seems like there's a fundamental misunderstanding of the value (which can be misplaced, sure) of criticism. Nowadays the typical response to any type of criticism for art or design or anything seems to be: "could YOU do better?" Which misses the point totally!

 

[Salvatore]

Me too. I really miss those old Style.com videos with Tim Blanks (I loved the intro music lol), hearing from everyone from the designer themselves to the buyers to the models and more. I learned so much !

 

[sanssoleil]

I really hate the notion that "communicators'" (is that journalists??? or just influencers?) job is to cheerlead the industry. this very notion got us to the place where pitchfork (lmao i know) journalists have to lock their twitter accounts if they want to give taylor swift a middling review. job of journalists / critics is to be critical of any industry they are analyzing, i like a well written review even if i disagree with it sometimes and if i disagree with it, i am supposed to argument it with something. let's discuss fashion, let's get mad even but let's never stop being critical.

 

[KoV]

The comments Brianboy was highlighting in his post as so cruel/unprofessional/hateful were.... incredibly mild? I thought the Dante tweet from Vanessa was hilarious.

 

[THD96]

I mean in a way I can understand why journalists are so mild these days. Considering most of the important brands right now belong to conglomerates, imagine piss-off one brand and getting banned from the whole group. If you are being blacklisted by LVMH and Kering, then it's game over. Because imagine going all the way from NY to Paris and you only allow to enter a Posh Spice show, just stay home and save yourself from all the travel.

But nowadays, you don't need to go to a show to write a review, you can totally do it with live streams tbh. And I rather have them write their honest reviews at home than them write some cookie-cutter, kiss-@** pieces at the show.

Anyway, why being so pressed about who attended the show or the seat arrangement? Just give us good show and clothes already.

 

[Salvatore]

I feel like a group of editors need a pseudonym or something to represent them as a collective so that they can write honest reviews. I don’t know what, but something overall needs to happen to shake everybody up.

 

[LadyJunon]

My issue with Friedman's review of Gucci was less her moaning about influencers, but more her calling a bejewelled bra "misogynistic". Like, seriously? This isn't the 60s anymore.

 

[Phuel]

^^^ Eh. She’s just the typical middile-age type desperate for the approval of the children; and dragging on “skinny”, and using one of their fav words like “misogyny” is what wins likes/follows. Her dragging on “skinny” models, while she's wiry and lithe herself just shows her desperate need to be liked/followed by them.

It’s just pathetic nowadays how a very thin/skinny physique will be automatically dismissed as unhealthy/dangerous/diseased, while a morbidly-obese one— and not just chubby, but someone who is clearly dangerously unhealthy at 5’3” and looks to be pushing over 300lb, is praised and celebrated. (I watched this doc of English welfare mums with morbidly-obese children: Her 5yo son weighs 140lbs, and this woman is insistent that it’s genetics and not because of her overfeeding him.) That sort of rapid nonsense is to be expected of the masses, but for someone in the industry to join the sheep in bashing thin bodies, is desperately pathetic of her to beg for likes/follows.

(These petty squabbles that critics have with designers is so mean girls pettiness. Whether it’s Cathy trolling Hedi to get a rise out of him, or this… Grow up: Fashion isn’t really that important, and neither are designers nor their critics. Don’t stoop to the level of rapper beefs. LOL @ the day when Hedi breaks and takes a hit out on Cathy…)

 

[sanssoleil]

I mean okay, fair but a lot of models have admitted they had unhealthy eating habits while modelling and did things to suppress their appetite. It is not like they are encouraged to be healthy, they are encouraged to stay thin and sometimes they're healthy, sometimes not. Focus on unhealthiness of being underweight I guess comes from perceived overemphasis on unhealthiness of being overweight / obese. Effects of anorexia / starving oneself are severe though and everyone should know about for example one's digestion might never be normal again. But I have no idea who starves themselves and who eats healthy. Really it is beyond the scope of my knowledge to try to guess the health conditions anyone of any weight is dealing with and I think most would agree with this. Let's be fair, most people don't give a sh*t about health of individual people and it's mostly fake concern when it deals with individual skinny / fat strangers to them/us. but if certain types of bodies are being pushed as the ideal whatever those bodies may be is going to result in people developing unhealthy habits to attain those bodies (and i mean we had kardashian bodies as trendy, skinny bodies as trendy etc. trends change and also are culturally specific). Ideally we would be developing some kind of cultural body neutrality but eh maybe that's not impossible. Ideally we wouldn't be telling everyone they need to be beautiful. Ideally we would be propagating values of intellectual growth. Now back to fashion / beauty, of course fashion is not reality and fashion is far more complex than merely setting standards of beauty as so much as it's a form of both art and a way to sell commodities. No way to satisfy everyone and show all types of "beauty" let's say and what we individually find beautiful also differs (i find julia nobis beautiful but if i showed her image to some bro on the street he would be likely to call her well...not pretty) (now was my idea of beauty influenced by years of fashion admiration). I'd like to see more vision of stylists / designers / whoever being represented in casting so we see completely different casting across shows and I would like to see more fashion as purely art but eh capitalism, selling clothes, those are all more important factors.

 

[LadyJunon]

I'd like to see more vision of stylists / designers / whoever being represented in casting so we see completely different casting across shows and I would like to see more fashion as purely art but eh capitalism, selling clothes, those are all more important factors.

This!

It would so call to look at casting and say "That's a Hedi type casting, that's a Ghesquiere type casting, that's a Miuccia type casting.". I remember @Phuel said this on a Theyskens thread:

I do like/admire his preference for a certain type of women, even if these types aren’t my preference. It’s too rare these days that a designer has the balls to cast a very specific look, a very specific type of women for his brand. Aside from this unspoken requirement but absolutely pressured casting of “diverse and inclusive” headcount with casting nowadays, almost all these shows lack any individual mood or force of personality. Every show’s casting looks just like the the previous one: It’s a mall casting, with not a whiff of personality. And what’s worse with so many of these castings is that despite all the “diversity and inclusivity” of faces/bodies, none of them will convince anyone that these groups of models would ever hang out IRL— which is really the point of a cast for your brand LOL The only one that gets it is Hedi: His casting of MOC alongside Caucasians truly look like individuals that would hang out and are a clan IRL. And this is a component of Olivier’s that I admire: His mousey, wallflowers dressed in designs that they may feel a tad awkward in but making the effort, feels and looks like a genuine mood of a certain type of young women exploring and discovering their power and potential as women. That brand of innocence mingling with feminine allure that his previous showings have created, is another reason why his casting and shows are so potent and adds so much more to the worldlbuilding of his brand.

Source: Olivier Theyskens S/S 2022 Paris

Long story short, he liked how Theyskens and Hedi casted their shows in a way that creates a certain character that suits their brands, even with the inclusion of race/gender/size, and I agree. Every major/semi-major show just has the same roundabout of models: Adut, Akon, America, Bella, He, Jil, Loli, Louise, Mica, Mika, Mouna, Paloma, Rianne, Sora, Steinberg, Vittoria. Of course, they are very good at what they do, but I don't need to see the exact same equation of models everywhere.

 

[susseinmcswanny]

That pit of influencers is actually so hilarious

 

[susseinmcswanny]

But anyways yeah there's not really "mainstream" journalists and critics anymore because when you publicly critique a businessman's product in the media, you'll just be messing with his money, and he certainly won't like that. To them it is not about the art, it's about consumption.