Designer & Fashion Insiders Behavior (PLEASE READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING)

[Benn98]

Galliano paid for his transgressions a thousand times over. These others literally got a slap on the wrist in comparison.

The D&G earring was just a figure that was known in the southern Italian culture much like a French person can reference creole culture and stuff like that.

True. And the Piet character in the Netherlands. Which even if you look and dissect if superficially, it's still problematic. So you know as the UK we have a stronger footprint than France, Italy, Spain and to a lesser extent, Germany, regarding coloniasm. If you look back to our visual literature, the dark skin/red lips depiction was rampant back then. But you'd be hard pressed to see a British publication or figure exploit it so irresponsibly like we've seen from these people. It's just in poor taste. Especially since black culture has been integrated so seamlessly into our society to the extent that there's no us/them mentality. What does that say about how these wrongdoers regard integration? Take it one step furter - they're trying to sell to handbags and trinkets to a people who they're insulting or mocking if at the same time?

I don't think there neccesarily need to be a black American on their member of staff list. Because that's firstly implying that any other Africans would overlook something like this as frivolous, and more importantly, also absolving blame from the rest of the staff. Not my fault, I'm dumb, I don't know any better. Which is not an excuse. This is a skilled field. Thank God contemporary education in fashion is linked to not only to history and geography, but also cultural sensitivity.

It's like these fashion professionals are all adult versions of little Greg from Curb, lol:

 

[mepps]

Europeans love to claim ignorance, when they get called on their racism.
As a black American I've traveled the world extensively, and have been all over Europe.
The racism there can be both subtle and overt. Italy is one of the places where it's particularly overt. I've also noticed that Black Europeans are a bit complicated....as Lola stated above. Many of them seem to have a colonial mindset. Black Americans don't play that.

Racism is racism, and whether Prada set out to purposely be offensive or not, is besides the point. Perhaps that window display would have gone unchallenged in Europe, but black Americans are not docile. Blackface has a long and ugly history in American culture, with it's roots in the 19th century, right up to Hollywood. The image is triggering. Having that stupid thing in a New York shop window, was never gonna end well for them.

 

[Lola701]

Europeans love to claim ignorance, when they get called on their racism.
As a black American I've traveled the world extensively, and have been all over Europe.
The racism there can be both subtle and overt. Italy is one of the places where it's particularly overt. I've also noticed that Black Europeans are a bit complicated....as Lola stated above. Many of them seem to have a colonial mindset. Black Americans don't play that.

Racism is racism, and whether Prada set out to purposely be offensive or not, is besides the point. Perhaps that window display would have gone unchallenged in Europe, but black Americans are not docile. Blackface has a long and ugly history in American culture, with it's roots in the 19th century, right up to Hollywood. The image is triggering. Having that stupid thing in a New York shop window, was never gonna end well for them.

Yes black Europeans are beyond complicated. In France, it’s particularly even more complicated given the extensive list of old colonies, the situation with « Arabs » ( more people from the Maghreb) and the situation with the creole. There are a lot of « non-dit » (unsaid things) and a clear embarrassment from the French authorities toward the situation.

Black Americans are/were united for one issue and everything was merged in that issue. Racism, social justice and everything....

In France, where to start? From whom? It’s kinda insane to believe that the first time French people saw a humanized black man, that man in question was an American.

The younger generation is a little bit more informed and educated in those issues thanks to what’s going on in America or in the UK. Blackface for example is not something that we saw a lot growing up in France. But it’s insane to believe that there’s a carnival in Lille where people are doing blackface and sees nothing wrong with that. There was an outrage all the over the country for this but in France, a social media backlash or small demonstration doesn’t necessarily move things.

Unfortunately, to raise awareness in this country, you have to destroy the streets and block the country.

I don’t know about the state of diversity in the design teams today but I can tell you that working in Paris in the fashion industry in the early 00´s, diversity in the studios wasn’t a thing. Azzedine Alaia... It was easy for him to be diverse obviously, Mr Saint Laurent had his house models who were black and there was Karl who had Eric Wright as his right hand man for years....Then maybe the seamstresses. That’s with historic designers. Diversity really came when American designers started to design for French houses.

I believe that in Italy the majority of the studios are filled with Italians or white people. When I think about Prada, I remember that this is maybe the only Italian brand (or maybe only brand in recent history) which didn’t have a black model on their runway for a decade! It’s insane to believe that even the problematic D&G had black models in their campaigns and shows in the 00´s when the intellectual madone of fashion that is Miuccia had none.

 

[dodencebt]

Gotta love the way they framed this. Prada has never been the poster child for inclusivity compared to so many other brands and everything that’s being written under that post from Diet Prada and the likes of Bryanboy (LOL) in defense of the brand is a way to make this a small lapse in judgment when the brand has done so much for black models, which again - not true. Their runway and campaign casts were predominently white for so long, and as Benn already said, they even got called for it many times. Very disappointed by how biased some insiders are toward Prada.

 

[tctra]

In France, where to start? From whom? It’s kinda insane to believe that the first time French people saw a humanized black man, that man in question was an American

That's interesting. i've heard that blacks in europe and france face less racism than in the US and treated as equals

 

[Lola701]

^^
We face it less in France because of the complexity of the French society and maybe also because of past « racist clichés ». Black people are not seen as threats here. We seen as friendly, kind, funny...
But maybe the thing is that French society is less « community » based. We all kinda mix together, in schools, circles, neighborhood. You’ll rarely see a black person not having any white friend like I experienced in the US..

The society is a little bit inviting for arabs and there’s maybe some issues of class.
And racism is subtle here. Nobody will tell you that upfront... and it’s mostly in small cities. Paris is a multicultural place like Marseille and Lyon.

But it’s sure our issues with racism are no way as violent as they are in the US. In my lifetime, i’ve never experienced a real racist situation in France or in the UK. I’ve witnessed some or experienced some (abroad) but that’s it. Italy for example, outside of some fancy areas of Milan..

Very disappointed by how biased some insiders are toward Prada.

Unfortunately, that’s a human thing. People are always biased when it comes to people they love. I know because i’m sure i’m also like that when it comes to designers even when I try not to be.

But in fact in the fashion community (even more in London) Miuccia is like that untouchable figure...A bit like Karl in Paris.

Prada might be a fabulous brand. It had a very bad influence over the industry when it really dominated the fashion conversation. This on going battle for diversity we have had for years now only comes from the Prada influence...

 

[ghostwriter10549]

When it comes to Prada and race issues I remember Olivia Pope from Scandal. For 8 years she was out and about carrying a Prada bag everywhere in the series and thats was so wried to watch because Prada is brand known for not putting any effort in diversity.. I know that Scandal become a awful TV show, but the audience and the engagement in social media was huge.
To me all this is a demonstration of, not just how their PR is a complete mess, but how arrogant this brand is when it comes about their own audience. If this + the inconsistent quality of the clothes, will take this brand to the complete oblivion/ruin.

 

[Marc10]

While I am positive that the Prada thingy wasn't done with ill intent, the fact that the correlation didn't cross their mind is a huge example of how the fashion industry (alongside with many others) need more diversity (racial and cultural) in their staffs. Cause I guarantee that any person of color or someone with a broader cultural/social conciousness would've raised their hand and said "errr... you guys..." when they saw that.

 

[Benn98]

What to Watch: Will Dolce & Gabbana Weather the Storm?

Anything can happen and fashion has a short memory, according to observers, but the fallout may be more easily forgotten in the West, while it appears it could take longer in China.

By Luisa Zargani and Tiffany Ap
with contributions from Sharon Edelson
on January 3, 2019

Judging from tourists taking selfies in front of the Rinascente department store windows around Christmas — taken over by Domenico Dolce and Stefano Gabbana puppets doing fittings, DJ-ing and dressed as magicians— the designers’ social media storm over comments made by Gabbana about China may have somewhat died down.

Late last month, Dolce & Gabbana held a two-day fashion show extravaganza in Milan for a group of couture clients and the few Italian reporters allowed to attend the event gave ample space — and positive reviews — on their media outlets (next to significant advertising from the brand). All appeared to be business as usual — although Vogue’s international editor Suzy Menkes was ensnared in social media wrath, accused of being too indulgent toward the two designers. Also in December, the designers opened a sprawling new boutique in Rome near the Spanish Steps.

However, something has changed. At press time, comments on Gabbana’s personal Instagram account have been disabled even as poop emojis continue to pour in from China on Dolce & Gabbana’s institutional account— an obvious reference to Gabbana’s own offensive messages, which triggered the social media backlash and the cancellation of the Shanghai fashion show in November.

“People in the West witnessed the controversy from a third-person point of view and did not feel directly targeted or attacked, unlike Chinese consumers,” explained Pablo Mauron, partner and managing director of Digital Luxury Group. “This makes a crucial difference in terms of damage. Viewed from the lens of a foreigner, this episode could be seen as just ‘one of the many missteps’ brands often make in terms of consumer marketing — the latest being Prada’s ‘Pradamalia’ line of bag charms, which reportedly comprises a figurine that resembles racist caricatures historically used to dehumanize black people. The West is perhaps, more used to controversy. The Chinese, however, aren’t. So I think that the damage in China is going to last.”

Mauron believes consumers will move on at a different pace, but that “the damage [will be] in the long-term, in terms of both brand equity and retail activities.” He also expects that consumers will have a “zero-degree tolerance” in the future in the case of another controversy.

Mauron also doesn’t think the brand “will ever be completely rehabilitated, it will have to learn to live with it and to keep in mind for everything it does in China in the future. The key will be to be consistent, and it will have to be for a long time as the main demographic touched by that scandal is the young generation.”

In the meantime, Rati Levesque, chief merchant at The RealReal, the luxury fashion site that specializes in the sale of secondhand clothing, said, “We’ve seen a general softening with the Dolce & Gabbana brand lately, even pre-dating the recent incident. Over the past month in particular, we’ve seen demand for Dolce soften with search down 3 percent and resale value down 8 percent, while consignment is increasing, outpacing similar designers by 7 percent.”

Jennifer Mak, designer and brand consultant, said “Overall, I’m sure it is bad for them. I think some people would forget about it and some won’t but I think partly because Dolce & Gabbana is not an easy style for Chinese consumers.” The “Sicilian girl,” “very heavily printed” and with “very dramatic accessories” is not a good fit, she contended. “Have you ever seen anyone do it in China? Even a celebrity at an event? No one can really pull that whole look off. Obviously they have T-shirts. The Dolce & Gabbana T-shirts are popular and the bags, but I don’t think it’s a big, big brand for the Chinese consumer. I don’t think they will really miss it. I think for people who don’t care about it too much from before [the incident], they will just stop buying.” At the same time, she believes that, as the brand is now selling at a 40 percent discount because of the holiday sales period, some customers “will take advantage and buy it.”

One brand that could benefit from the Dolce & Gabbana fallout is Gucci, contended Mak. “Gucci is doing very well at the moment in China because they have successfully made their brands younger and attractive to the Chinese consumer so I think they will benefit.”

Conversely, Homer Chou with Shanghai consultancy Translatio does not think this boycott will be a long-lasting issue. “It’s just for the moment. As those patriotic people are not actually buying Dolce & Gabbana at all.” Chou contended that the brand’s real customers “don’t care about it,” and that the Key Opinion Leaders and celebrities who dropped out of the show did it “just for public image and once things get over they will still be their ambassadors. It won’t have too much impact to the Chinese market in reality, and I still saw a lot of Chinese customers go shopping at the Dolce & Gabbana shop in Milano.”

Louis Houdart, ceo of branding consultancy Creative Capital China, was still reeling from the “incredibly offensive message if written by [Gabbana],” and by the ad campaign, but also believes things will improve. “”It will hurt Dolce & Gabbana, and they deserve to be hurt. On a more business point of view, things should calm down and consumers will be back. If they are cash-rich and well-managed they should be able to go through it. Regarding consumers coming back — consumers in general tend to have a short-term memory.”

Paraphrasing Andy Warhol’s “15-minutes of fame” phrase, Houdart said, “We could now say that from now on every brand in today’s world, everyone, can be a public enemy for 15 minutes — or more.”

Addressing the KOLs issue, Houdart said they and celebrities are required by the government to act as role models, citing as an example how Fan Bingbing was reprimanded for her tax issues and had to post some nationalistic content on her social channels after she came out of hiding. For this reason, “for KOL and celebrities, it will take longer, I would think. KOL are really public figures in many different ways, and in China, they are also requested to be role models.”

Grace Chen, designer of her own brand, said she did not think the Chinese will forget about what happened but contended that they “are also very forgiving and open-minded. Anything can happen here.”

Alessandro Maria Ferreri, ceo and owner of The Style Gate consulting firm, also believes “fashion has a short memory” and, remarking on how most retailers and competing brands remained silent on the issue, he expects that, “once the storm has passed, people will be thinking about the new season.”

Ferrari noted that the group employs more than 3,000 people, and it is one of the first 10 largest Italian luxury groups in terms of sales, which at the end of March 2018 totaled 1.29 billion euros, with 25 percent coming from the Asia Pacific region. Showing “some support” to help Italian craftsmanship and value would be fair now, he said. To this end, he appreciated how Rinascente “did not cave in to sensationalism, despite the fact that Chinese tourists are important” for the retailer.

“They slipped, but they apologized and I am sure that they are picking up quickly, also in China, which is an important market for them.” He also noted that on Dolce & Gabbana’s web site, of the brand’s six foreign branches, two are in Asia, one in Shanghai and one in Beijing. Additionally, he observed that the group, according to its balance sheet, in the last fiscal year invested 12.8 million euros in the Asia-Pacific area, opening stores in Ningbo, Shenzhen, Chongqing and Guangzhou — all Chinese cities. “I think that relations with China will go back to normal because of the good job they are doing,” Ferrari concluded.

WWD.com

 

[JPineapple]

Stefano did it again.

 

[Benn98]

He's at it again. To think that the biggest factor that could lead to D&G's demise isn't poor sales or a new direction, but Stefano's phone.

I don't get it though. Why does he want the user to delete the Kim pic?

 

[JPineapple]

Because Kim posted a IG story tagging D&G and the presents she received for the brand. But some users reminded her that Stefano called her family "trash" and she deleted the post. Obviously, DP posted it and we all know what happened next.

 

[Benn98]

Miuccia Prada’s Take on Freedom of Speech, Cultural Appropriation

The designer said the current times lead her to increasingly ask herself if she is offending anyone and to the problem of "lack of freedom."

By Luisa Zargani on January 13, 2019

SPEAKING FREELY: Miuccia Prada is one of fashion’s most intense and thought-provoking designers. She challenges herself, surrounded by artists and intellectuals and, during interviews, ponders the answers and often throws in more of her own questions. On Sunday, ahead of her fall men’s show in Milan, the designer candidly approached the subject of cultural appropriation and freedom of speech — and of thought — clearly issues that have been top-of-mind after recent accusations of racism against the brand, which her company has vehemently denied.

In December, Prada faced online accusations that animal-like figurines and charms in its stores and windows evoked blackface. The group subsequently issued a statement saying it “abhors racist imagery” and vowed to withdraw the items from “display and circulation,” while explaining that the figures are “fantasy charms composed of elements of the Prada oeuvre” and known as Pradamalia. The brand nonetheless pledged to improve its “diversity training.”

“I increasingly think anything one does today can cause offense,” Miuccia Prada said Sunday, speaking in soft tones, at the headquarters of the cultural Fondazione Prada. “There can sometimes be a lack of generosity but, on the other hand, how can we know all cultures? The Chinese protest, then the Sikh, then Mexicans, then Afro-Americans. But how can you know the details of each single culture so well when there can be 100 different cultures in every country?”

She went on to talk about how “people want respect because now there is talk of cultural appropriation, but this is the foundation of fashion, as it has always been the basis of art, of everything.”

This has led Prada to ask herself, when she is readying a collection and a show, “Am I offending someone?” What she sees as a provocation, “could it be read as an offense?”

“Those who are offended are offended, so I don’t know how we can solve this problem. Surely, I feel like not saying anything, not doing anything, so I don’t have any problem. Because then the famous web hate is massive.”

Prada sees this “problem of lack of freedom” at this moment as fundamental. “I talked about it with the Fondazione [Prada], with the intellectuals, it really is a problem — one would have to set up ‘secret societies’ — otherwise there is no progressive thinking. If you are not free to say things that may also not be correct and you have to be careful every time you open your mouth, how can you talk with freedom of thought? This really is a turning point. The world is bigger and I understand this and I also understand that people finally have a voice and speak up.”

WWD.com

 

[dodencebt]

I talked about it with the Fondazione [Prada], with the intellectuals, it really is a problem — one would have to set up ‘secret societies’ — otherwise there is no progressive thinking."

I wouldn't be surprised if that's a quote from Germany right before 1933.

 

[Benn98]

I agree with her when she's saying that cultural appropriation played such an integral part of fashion and art. That shouldn't really be the discussion anymore though. It should be how to turn appropriation into appreciation. Something she's quite adept at. Why was there no outrage over her cheongsam inspired collection a few seasons back? I recall she revisited it 2/3 times, back to back. Maybe because it was dealt with in a sensitive manner. The crux of the collection wasn't rehashing the cheongsam, but instead borrowing elements in a rational and sensitive way to make her point. Why is it so hard to repeat that same process?

If you live in a homogenous culture or society where everyone came from the same ethnic background it probably wouldn't be easy to offend anyone. But the moment you step beyond that and draw inspiration from someone else, why can there not be a certain sense of responsibility or awareness in the way you approach it? I'm surprised Miuccia, who's supposedly so worldly and cultured, is struggling with this.

 

[Lola701]

I can totally understand her feeling but I think it’s complicated because most of the controversies comes from America or the UK.
Because in France or Italy, fashion is put on a certain piedestal, it’s considered as art and Art can afford to borrow from cultures and re do it in a new way.

Art is still very elitist while fashion is mass and when you’re mass, you have to be extremely careful about those issues.

Nevertheless, i’m glad that I experienced the era where designers like Gaultier or Galliano and others could reference cultures and celebrate them. But then again, at that time, diversity on the runway wasn’t an issue because it felt acquired.

But I think that Americans needs sometimes to understand other people’s sensibilities and cultures. But i think in the future, brands maybe needs to create a social department that could raise their voices before exposing their work to the world.

I hate the fact that we are living in such a conservative society but at the same time it’s good to aknowledge people’s anger.

Social media is a poisoned gift.

 

[fashionista-ta]

Because Kim posted a IG story tagging D&G and the presents she received for the brand. But some users reminded her that Stefano called her family "trash" and she deleted the post. Obviously, DP posted it and we all know what happened next.

What I love about being me is it's so easy for me to remember who's called my family trash ... no one, that's who

 

[kenndale]

Diet Prada has some really good posts about how Virgil clearly rips off indie labels. It’s really shameful.

 

[tapenerd]

I never understood the hype for Virgil ‍♀️

 

[eugenius]

I might be wrong, but I want to say a certain type of guilt has something to do with it.