Model Behavior (PLEASE READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING)

[tapenerd]

Gemma almost made me cry!!

 

[zacatecas570]

^This is the most relevant thing Vogue team have done in YEARS. Models deserve a voice and deserve to work. Hopefully with this Vogue start giving real models more covers instead of this trend of the instagirls and reality tv celebrities.

BTW What happened to Gemma? Am I missing something?

 

[Lola701]

Heartbreaking video but at the same time, it’s a reality in the fashion community. Everybody who has been a part of it knows about it...

The problem is casting directors. They are the ones who changed the rules in the industry. This is the sad reality...
And the rise of casting directors happened at the same time that those brands became bigger.
Everybody knows how influential Prada and RM were in that process...

In the Ateliers, seamstresses removes fabrics more than they add because those girls are skinnier than stockman.

For the modeling industry to change, it will need a revolution or a wave of new models.


It’s funny that AV post those videos because they are responsible, indirect responsible but still. They have always featured their idea of « healthy » models, very athletic and stuff compared to the Europeans magazines but in the whole world of modeling, a healthy American Vogue model is skinny to people’s eyes.

 

[cestmagique]

BTW What happened to Gemma? Am I missing something?

She was very popular and then put on weight, and the general reaction to that was awful. You can see how it affected her. It's a bit heartbreaking to hear her say that it shouldn't matter and meanwhile she's crying-- it DOES matter when you are publicly humiliated for your body size as a young woman, especially since she had been such a celebrated figure in fashion for years. All of sudden there was so little loyalty towards her. Sweet Gemma, she has always been beautiful inside and out.

 

[dsamg]

^This is the most relevant thing Vogue team have done in YEARS. Models deserve a voice and deserve to work. Hopefully with this Vogue start giving real models more covers instead of this trend of the instagirls and reality tv celebrities.

BTW What happened to Gemma? Am I missing something?

Gemma walked the Chanel show looking noticeably different and Karl publicly shamed her for it. Candid pictures of her were circulated heavily in Australia with disparaging headlines about her appearance.

 

[dodencebt]

Gemma walked the Chanel show looking noticeably different and Karl publicly shamed her for it.

Did he? I thought he was one of the few supportive industry insiders who let her walk during S/S '08 for both his namesake show and Chanel, and that everyone else had a problem with her changed body / ripped her apart after appearing in a bikini on the Chanel runway. I might be wrong though, but I can't find anything online about Karl saying anything about her weight, only comments from others.

 

[SophiaVB]

I don't really know what the point of the video was. It was uncomfortable and hypocritical for them to highlight the anorexic model's weights & low-weight photos and then utilize a Vogue Italia one-off issue as the model of how things are "better now"

There wasn't any conclusion or prescription for altering the current state of things and it felt invasive to watch Ali & Gemma crying.

 

[dsamg]

Did he? I thought he was one of the few supportive industry insiders who let her walk during S/S '08 for both his namesake show and Chanel, and that everyone else had a problem with her changed body / ripped her apart after appearing in a bikini on the Chanel runway. I might be wrong though, but I can't find anything online about Karl saying anything about her weight, only comments from others.

Not sure it is online anywhere but after the show he complained in front of quite a few people that the agency had told him she was a different size but he didn't know she looked THAT different. Can't quote exactly due to no weight-talk rules. Heard it from multiple sources at the time.

 

[dodencebt]

Not sure it is online anywhere but after the show he complained in front of quite a few people that the agency had told him she was a different size but he didn't know she looked THAT different. Can't quote exactly due to no weight-talk rules. Heard it from multiple sources at the time.

That's really disappointing, although I'm not really surprised.

 

[Lola701]

She was very popular and then put on weight, and the general reaction to that was awful. You can see how it affected her. It's a bit heartbreaking to hear her say that it shouldn't matter and meanwhile she's crying-- it DOES matter when you are publicly humiliated for your body size as a young woman, especially since she had been such a celebrated figure in fashion for years. All of sudden there was so little loyalty towards her. Sweet Gemma, she has always been beautiful inside and out.

It’s sad but it’s the reality of her business and of our society...
When Rihanna gained a little bit of weight, it made headlines.
I remember i was at the Vuitton show where Kate Moss closed...at the end, everybody was talking about her cellulite.

The sad thing about the Gemma return in 2008 is that it felt like nobody was prepared. She end up wearing a swimsuit and very basic clothes for the Chanel show because the clothes didn’t fit.
She was the star of the collection but she didn’t even wore an eveningdress and there was Natalia at the time who was the perfect girl who lost her baby weight.

Even if Karl liked her and supported her in public because she received criticism, he complained in private a little bit because the clothes didn’t fit.

More than modeling, image is very important in the working place. Whether you work in retail, in the business world or in fashion.
People are judgemental anyway! Models got it harder because their job is based on their look...

It’s not even a question of loyalty or anything.

The problem with models and the industry is a problem in the society. What is more concerning is that now, with social media, we see the rise of another insane body shape: the Perrier bottle-KARDASHIAN. It creates another insecurity and another problem in the society.

 

[cestmagique]

^I mean that it's about loyalty/not being a complete d*ck in the personal sense, not professional. She didn't need to get railroaded for gaining weight by the same people who worked with her for years and then went ahead and used her for the show anyway. And then complained about her in "private" even though big shock, we all heard the comments anyway. If she wasn't the size they wanted, they shouldn't have used her.

 

[Lax89]

The end of the video seems a bit hypocritical. Sure, there is this movement of body inclusivity but the (high-)fashion world that is the focus in this forum is far from it.

I wish magazines had the balls to interview casting directors/models' agents to talk about this issue.
It's sad for the models and I'm sure they don't get any support from their agency when this happens.

 

[Lola701]

^I mean that it's about loyalty/not being a complete d*ck in the personal sense, not professional. She didn't need to get railroaded for gaining weight by the same people who worked with her for years and then went ahead and used her for the show anyway. And then complained about her in "private" even though big shock, we all heard the comments anyway. If she wasn't the size they wanted, they shouldn't have used her.

I don’t think she felt bad because of Karl. I mean his name is fine to put in the conversation but the criticism she received were from the industry in general.
Even if he complained he used her in the campaign for that season and I don’t think there was bad blood between them.

The problem is the fact that that season, apart from a few designers like Gaultier and Galliano, she didn’t worked that much.

Let’s not act that it’s a fairytale. What you describe is the reality of any business. It doesn’t matter in your work place, those who cheers for you when you’re on top can turn their back on you later. It’s a working environment and it’s sad because it happened to a very successful model but it happened to a lot of models before.

I don’t know if they received the same empathy...

And maybe the last thing is that we are all responsible. There’s a general hypocrisy.
The rise of Gemma wasn’t a good thing in the first place...That babydoll wave was already a bad indication.

I paid attention to Gemma in the Tom Ford for Gucci last show. Her face and body was insane but not in the good way. She looked good but it didn’t really standout in the best way because it just portrayed another extreme.

The size 0 started with those young girls. Of course they didn’t realized that they were going to be their own enemy...

The people who applaud the Vogue video on the comments on YouTube are the same who bullied Gigi Hadid for being too curvy when she walked the Versace show.

We all love to see a beautifully cut trouser or dress on the runway but never ask ourselves if those girls wearing the clothes have problems or are insecure.

The big problem with the models conversation is that it’s endless but at the same time it’s impossible to satisfy everybody.
The supermodels of the 90’s with their insane, fitted, athletic and sometimes curvy bodies were criticized because those bodies were unrealistic, unrelatable for the masses...
Then people wanted reality but the problem is that reality went to another extreme.

So now, we have in our schizophrenic era people championing diversity in body types but at the same time having very drastic « healthy » regimen. We have plus size models with unrealistic bodies.

I wonder sometimes if those conversations are not a bit useless sometimes because at the end, even the models talking still fit in the boxes they are fighting against. It’s a system and in order to work, they have to fit, they have to exercise, to have a drastic regimen because no matter what, their body is still their working instrument...

It’s a tricky conversation anyway.

 

[dsamg]

Also interesting that Ali seemed to call WSJ out for humiliating her when from their perspective, they probably thought they were supporting her by calling out the industry. I'm being careful about my words as I know her mother used to be very active on here, but I do believe at that point I would have stopped my child modelling. We can call out the casting directors or brands or whoever, but Vogue needs to take a good look at their own magazine and at the people around these girls.

I was shocked by Sarah's story - what kind of adult does that to a 17 year old. Grow up. Some of these people are just stuck in their perpetual bubble.

 

[GivenchyHomme]

I remember this. Poor Gemma.

This article sums up what happened to her after that Chanel moment. It's worth the read.

A Z ' A L L Ű R: Gemma Ward, A Supermodel Betrayed

 

[MulletProof]

I remember the context of Gemma's story like it was yesterday and a bit like Lola. It wasn't a sudden switch in clients.. she had gradually become less interesting, partly because she grew up and her success was based on looking like a child/doll and partly because looking like a child/doll was no longer desirable. She was also getting into acting, so if your career is.. not exactly in decline, just not getting any more buzz and you're not pursuing it full time, and there's a bigger star (Natalia) that people have wanted back for years at the same time you choose to work more, and on top of that, you're not returning in the shape people know you for and that you built your success on: recipe for rejection. It also seemed to me like she was dealing with something far more personal: physical and mental health, as a result of the strain that fashion can put on such a young person, especially with her level of success. Then there's Heath's death... I can't even imagine how that went down privately since she was a bit too much in public (sounding like nobody was more affected than her- he had a daughter..). There were a lot of factors involved. I don't think anyone would've been able to handle these upside-downs like a pro but even less so a 21 year-old that's received nothing but public praise for years.

When she disappeared and was spotted later looking dramatically different.. people wouldn't care so much if this was an academic figure that went on hiatus and resurfaced looking like that, but this is a model, she will naturally be scrutinized.. she has made a name and fortune by selling image.. yes it’s cruel and they're people too... but their business on a good phase remains the same on a bad phase.

My conclusion is that she was well-educated and with creative needs to be a model (setting the tune for an ongoing struggle because you have awareness of what has the most value and you eventually grow resentment for being judged for what you think is nobody's business). And with her really being at the top of her game, going back to school or even away just isn't that easy. Once that is considered and maybe due to her age, she expected loyalty, and her physical and mental health came down crashing when she realised people do turn their backs in personal life and 100% in a professional setting ESPECIALLY if you're not selling what you used to sell.

I'm not surprised to see how bad she still feels about it all 12 years later, the way she completely disappeared for years made it clear how she wanted nothing to do with fashion and being in the public eye. I work with a lot of people that worked as children and had massive success at 13-16 and were congratulated for their body on a daily basis. It becomes a struggle often for the rest of their lives to deal with the notion that you were more accepted and at your “best” at that age and that nothing you’ve done after compares. It’s sad.

Not making it a Gemma issue and justifying fashion or modeling btw. Modeling/casting agencies/etc are the bottom-feeders of fashion after all. I just think parents need to think hard and long about whether they want to interrupt their child's development and alter their psyche forever by allowing them to join a market with their product being the way they look. If they have the means to provide them a better life in a more substantial way (quality education, creative expression), think twice maybe.. model is m-o-d-e-l.. a freakin' muted prototype, people may think they want to be that, but no human REALLY wants to be that and be treated as that.

(so invested.. lol)

back to the video, it’s just such a joke coming from Vogue. Almost like the government making a video about how people feel about policies that have affected them.

 

[modela]

I find Gemma to be so confusing ? She sometimes acts like the popular girl who lost her popularity.I wonder if she misses being on top and has regrets on how her career has gone ; She has tried to comeback multiple times and it has brought her nothing .Why not move on from an industry that is not welcoming to you .Her whole identity seems to be soo stuck on her "supermodel" days.Her prime.

*Hearsay read on another site (skinnygossip) that during that time she also behaved like a brat ,was acting out.

 

[modela]

I find Gemma to be so confusing ? She sometimes acts like the popular girl who lost her popularity.I wonder if she misses being on top and has regrets on how her career has gone ; She has tried to comeback multiple times and it has brought her nothing .Why not move on from an industry that is not welcoming to you .Her whole identity seems to be soo stuck on her "supermodel" days.Her prime.

*Hearsay read on another site (skinnygossip) that during that time she also behaved like a brat ,was acting out.

 

[modela]

Also interesting that Ali seemed to call WSJ out for humiliating her when from their perspective, they probably thought they were supporting her by calling out the industry. I'm being careful about my words as I know her mother used to be very active on here, but I do believe at that point I would have stopped my child modelling. We can call out the casting directors or brands or whoever, but Vogue needs to take a good look at their own magazine and at the people around these girls.

I was shocked by Sarah's story - what kind of adult does that to a 17 year old. Grow up. Some of these people are just stuck in their perpetual bubble.

I was actually shocked to hear her call out WSJ because the way i remember it was that she and her mom publicly complained ahout ali's lackluster season in paris.

 

[cestmagique]

back to the video, it’s just such a joke coming from Vogue. Almost like the government making a video about how people feel about policies that have affected them.

That is my exact problem with these videos. The content is important, but it's so bizarre that they're reporting on this stuff as if they didn't have anything to do with it.