Why does Vogue feature so few Asian models

[tigerrouge]

For me, Vogue Nippon's insistence on the use of Western models is the editor's decision in order to distinguish it from most of the other magazines available on the Japanese newsstand. The big names in fashion tend to be white Westerners, and Vogue Nippon has to use them, to fulfil its selling point as an elite magazine.

And then there's the other side - how much of the model choice is designed to reflect the audience's taste? In general I don't see many black models used in Asian magazines either. Let's run with the theory for the sake of example - let's say Asian audiences aren't interested in black models - if that were true, then any editor would have an uphill battle trying to change their audience's preference.

So sometimes the conspiracy doesn't start with the magazine; sometimes they're only responding to what's already 'out there' in terms of taste.

 

[sepia]

Yeah, but then who's to say the public's taste isn't shaped in large part by the perpetual images they encounter through the media? It's like a big cycle where everyone can shift blame to some other facet of the business. Maybe Asian people would be more responsive to other models if they were used more in their magazines. Maybe the magazines would put more other races in if they thought people responded better. Maybe the runways would be more diverse if the magazine editors were. And on and on. Someone has to make the first step!

 

[mishahoi]

Here`s the deal;
I know many people might have a heart attack after hearing this because many worship Japan and the Japanese for their fashion savvy, but I`ll say it anyway: 90% of the people of nippon wouldn`t know fashion if it were thrown in their donburi bowls.

What is the highest-grossing women`s magazine here? Its a mag masquerading as fashion when it is really a CATALOGUE. A catalogue of some of the most dry, horrible, sheep baahbaah lets look like everyone else dribble you will see. It seems really interesting at first, until you get to the next month; seen one seen em all. The models in these mags (JJ, Can-Cam, Ane-Cam, ViVi) are ALL asian, but most are mixed heritage. And they are super-icons. Not many people actually know who Kate Moss is. But they know Ebihara, Moe, and Yu Yamada. They are exclusive to their magazines, and they are sold as actresses, designers, singers, artists....

Nippon Vogue doesn`t sell THAT well. Neither does Marie Claire. Definitely not Elle. You can bet Numero Tokyo struggles. So-en probably does OK, although probably because they force all the students in their fashion school and sister-schools to buy subscriptions.

Fashion in Japan is very categorized, and there is a magazine for every subculture in fashion, and for every age, in increments of about 5 years and from every publishing company. It seems like every month there is a new "fashion" mag. There was a reception for one on friday!

Point is, Vogue Nippon, L`Official, High Fashion, Harpers Bazaar etc etc represent a certain niche; high-end western fashion. It would be ridiculous to put a bunch of asian models on the covers; it eradicates a semblance of what the mag is trying to sell. If they want Asian models, they can pick up a Voce etc- Japanese celebrity women usually get those covers...AND they still wear LV, Hermes etc...

My favorite mags here are Studio Voice, High Fashion, Vogue Nippon, Madame Figaro and ryuko tsushin....

so thats my story and Im sticking to it...

 

[tigerrouge]

I suspect each country's view of other races is an attitude that's been entrenched for a long time and which will continue to be so, regardless of who or what fashion magazines feature on their cover. And in some cases, it'll take more than a printed picture of a pretty girl to overcome some historical antipathies. I wonder how many Japanese models are going to be on the cover of Vogue China? Has there been progress within Asia, when it comes to that sort of racial stereotype closer to home? Are fashion magazine covers really going to change those types of deeply-held attitudes?

Overall, I'm not perturbed by the idea that fashion magazines are non-representative - because that's what fashion is. It's elitist and exclusive. It would be nice to see some more variety, that's for sure. But I'm a westerner - and I don't look anything like western top models. I'm sure there's a conspiracy in there somewhere.

 

[Yanka]

Here`s the deal;
I know many people might have a heart attack after hearing this because many worship Japan and the Japanese for their fashion savvy, but I`ll say it anyway: 90% of the people of nippon wouldn`t know fashion if it were thrown in their donburi bowls.

What is the highest-grossing women`s magazine here? Its a mag masquerading as fashion when it is really a CATALOGUE. A catalogue of some of the most dry, horrible, sheep baahbaah lets look like everyone else dribble you will see. It seems really interesting at first, until you get to the next month; seen one seen em all. The models in these mags (JJ, Can-Cam, Ane-Cam, ViVi) are ALL asian, but most are mixed heritage. And they are super-icons. Not many people actually know who Kate Moss is. But they know Ebihara, Moe, and Yu Yamada. They are exclusive to their magazines, and they are sold as actresses, designers, singers, artists....

Nippon Vogue doesn`t sell THAT well. Neither does Marie Claire. Definitely not Elle. You can bet Numero Tokyo struggles. So-en probably does OK, although probably because they force all the students in their fashion school and sister-schools to buy subscriptions.

Fashion in Japan is very categorized, and there is a magazine for every subculture in fashion, and for every age, in increments of about 5 years and from every publishing company. It seems like every month there is a new "fashion" mag. There was a reception for one on friday!

Point is, Vogue Nippon, L`Official, High Fashion, Harpers Bazaar etc etc represent a certain niche; high-end western fashion. It would be ridiculous to put a bunch of asian models on the covers; it eradicates a semblance of what the mag is trying to sell. If they want Asian models, they can pick up a Voce etc- Japanese celebrity women usually get those covers...AND they still wear LV, Hermes etc...

My favorite mags here are Studio Voice, High Fashion, Vogue Nippon, Madame Figaro and ryuko tsushin....

so thats my story and Im sticking to it...

Wow Thanks so much, you provided a great insight into this topic. Are you Japanese yourself by any chance? To be honest, most of my impression from Japanese consumers comes from the sights of those good-looking label-hungry affluent crowds of tourists in places like NY, Paris and Waikiki. I mean, when you see a 20-something with 40 pounds of Marc Jacobs, Hermes and LV in their hands, you assume they must be really into fashion. Like, not just in terms of spending, but also in terms of knowledge, brand awareness, haritage and "star buyers". I can't imagine somebody spending so much in Burberry or Calvin Klein who's never heard of Kate Moss. So why do you think this obsession with Western luxury goods exist? Is it because of constant exposure in celebrity magazines or just because everyone else has them and nobody wants to feel left out? So I'm guessing Vogue Nippon is not quite the same as Vogue US, like people look to it for a Western perspective, like news and trends while buying home-grown editions with Asian faces for kindof "lifestyle"?

 

[yalil]

^^Good insight.

I also feel that the models in heavy rotation in Nippon Vogue are those that are cutesy in a curious girly anime sailor moon way... how many times have we seen lily d, sasha, stam, gemma.

 

[min-SH]

i'm not sure what the situation is like in Japan (but i guess similar), but i can tell you that here in China, most girls/ppl buy "fashion" mags just to learn how to dress themselves and to catch up with what's hot/in these days and to see what the celebs are having.
And the concept of "model" is quite different here, you open up those JJ, Can-Cam, Ane-Cam, ViVi etc mags(the ones mishahoi has mentioned in her post, they have their Chinese version here also), instead of fashion models, you see cute faces(most of the time bi-racial) and lovely-but-always-the-same smiles telling you the "must haves" this season. i'm not saying it's a bad thing, it's just, the majority doesn't care about fashion, really.

 

[eternitygoddess]

I mean, when you see a 20-something with 40 pounds of Marc Jacobs, Hermes and LV in their hands, you assume they must be really into fashion. Like, not just in terms of spending, but also in terms of knowledge, brand awareness, haritage and "star buyers". I can't imagine somebody spending so much in Burberry or Calvin Klein who's never heard of Kate Moss.

Er...I think the Japanese are more into following the big labels such as Chanel and Dior instead of having a unique 'look'. Same goes for HK.

Of course, anyone can negate that opinion.

 

[Faith Akiyama]

This is very much the same idea as the big-eyed, long-legged look that's almost always featured in anime and manga, really I actually think Asians in general are extremely ethnocentric -- we are beyond proud of our people, our race, our history, our accomplishments, etc. However, there is always a consistent, strong appreciation for beauty, especially in varied forms. Perhaps Caucasian looks satisfy an eastern taste for the atypical, it's just expressed much more vividly -- quite romanticized -- than the vice versa case (Westerners regarding eastern culture as exotic beauty). At least, that is how I often feel

anime.gen.tr

 

[mishahoi]

not Japanese....been here about 5 years been in the industry for three, so I suppose I`m like an outsider looking out looking in

In general, Id say that that the majority of Japanese women (AND men) dress far better than their (say,) American counterparts. However, they dress that way because that is how they are told to dress... by magazines, tv shows, the staff at stores...

Did you know that people go to stylist schools to become staff at boutiques?? Its almost a requisite here..... the top designers hire from places like the Yale of Japan. When a customer comes in, it is not usually themselves, but the SA who chooses the outfit...(and the belt, and the shoes, and the other accessories...)

Because of the nature of my work, when I would go out shopping with a friend, he/she will pick something off the rack and say`I like this, but how do you suggest I wear it?`...as if I am supposed to tell them to wear it with something slim and nothing else.


Good for work, bad for imagination.

..and I`m, off on a OT tangent.....

Wow Thanks so much, you provided a great insight into this topic. Are you Japanese yourself by any chance? To be honest, most of my impression from Japanese consumers comes from the sights of those good-looking label-hungry affluent crowds of tourists in places like NY, Paris and Waikiki. I mean, when you see a 20-something with 40 pounds of Marc Jacobs, Hermes and LV in their hands, you assume they must be really into fashion. Like, not just in terms of spending, but also in terms of knowledge, brand awareness, haritage and "star buyers". I can't imagine somebody spending so much in Burberry or Calvin Klein who's never heard of Kate Moss. So why do you think this obsession with Western luxury goods exist? Is it because of constant exposure in celebrity magazines or just because everyone else has them and nobody wants to feel left out? So I'm guessing Vogue Nippon is not quite the same as Vogue US, like people look to it for a Western perspective, like news and trends while buying home-grown editions with Asian faces for kindof "lifestyle"?

 

[gr77]

Very interesting comments on this thread.I had always the same question in my mind as the OP's.
While I do understand why the lack of Japanese models on Vogue or Numero I can't help but feel frustrated and bored by the constant presence of "western" faces on these magazines.

 

[Yanka]

i'm not sure what the situation is like in Japan (but i guess similar), but i can tell you that here in China, most girls/ppl buy "fashion" mags just to learn how to dress themselves and to catch up with what's hot/in these days and to see what the celebs are having.
And the concept of "model" is quite different here, you open up those JJ, Can-Cam, Ane-Cam, ViVi etc mags(the ones mishahoi has mentioned in her post, they have their Chinese version here also), instead of fashion models, you see cute faces(most of the time bi-racial) and lovely-but-always-the-same smiles telling you the "must haves" this season. i'm not saying it's a bad thing, it's just, the majority doesn't care about fashion, really.

Well, to be fair... it's not much different in a bigger part of Western market as well. Especially in the recent year, this sweeping celebrity craze. I mean, how many times have we seen freakin Jennifer Aniston on the cover of Vogue and Bazaar with the same hairstyle, clothes and facial expression? Even less maintstream publications have their "same old same old" reliable faces. Like I noticed how every "edgy" male magazine needs to write about Asia Argento at least 4 times a year even though she starred in, like, 4 big movies and isn't doing anything remarkable at the moment.

 

[Yanka]

not Japanese....been here about 5 years been in the industry for three, so I suppose I`m like an outsider looking out looking in

In general, Id say that that the majority of Japanese women (AND men) dress far better than their (say,) American counterparts. However, they dress that way because that is how they are told to dress... by magazines, tv shows, the staff at stores...

Did you know that people go to stylist schools to become staff at boutiques?? Its almost a requisite here..... the top designers hire from places like the Yale of Japan. When a customer comes in, it is not usually themselves, but the SA who chooses the outfit...(and the belt, and the shoes, and the other accessories...)

Because of the nature of my work, when I would go out shopping with a friend, he/she will pick something off the rack and say`I like this, but how do you suggest I wear it?`...as if I am supposed to tell them to wear it with something slim and nothing else.


Good for work, bad for imagination.

..and I`m, off on a OT tangent.....

I must say this is absolutely CRAZY What, you need to graduate from Tokyo state univsity or something just to be an SA in Hermes???
I suppose luxury shopping is such an important part of thier lives, I think something like 46% of all luxury spending is accounted for by Japanese. I guess it's such a big business nobody wants to risk their reputations by hiring "hillbillies". Still insane.

 

[russh_kris_z]

well i want to be an sa at hermes or chanel

 

[KhaoticKharma]

This is very much the same idea as the big-eyed, long-legged look that's almost always featured in anime and manga, really I actually think Asians in general are extremely ethnocentric -- we are beyond proud of our people, our race, our history, our accomplishments, etc. However, there is always a consistent, strong appreciation for beauty, especially in varied forms. Perhaps Caucasian looks satisfy an eastern taste for the atypical, it's just expressed much more vividly -- quite romanticized -- than the vice versa case (Westerners regarding eastern culture as exotic beauty). At least, that is how I often feel


anime.gen.tr

Not to start a new argument all together, but I get the feeling that Naomi Campbell or Iman, despite their exotic appearance, would sell nearly as well as a Gemma Ward or Sophie Dahl cover. I have a Japanese/Mexican friend who went to Japan and said she saw a suprising amount of black/Japanese people, but I'm still taken aback to look at the magazines she brought back and see tons and tons of Eurasian woman- as in, they all had large eyes and European features, save almond shaped eyes and dark coloring (this was one of the catalogues mentioned earlier in the thread, I believe).

 

[Grunged]

Well, a model, i'm not saying who, said that she went to the Undercover casting, because they asked for her and the girl, who was Japanese, said "Sorry we're only casting white girls". This, of course pissed the model off who was asian btw. Who do you have to blame for them not wanting models that aren't white? You decide, because if I said what I feel about this whole subject I'd probably be banned. People have to start seeing beauty beyond color. It's stupid that a piece of clothing/magazine won't sell because somebody's features are different or because of their skin color, etc.

You have to blame the buyers IMO for this. Because obviously the people who make the magazine saw that it's sales decreased or people weren't interested when an asian model was used on the cover.. Ignore this post do whatever, I don't care.

 

[seahorseinstripe]

because they always look up to caucasian pyshically.
even so many percentage of people in tokyo have done plastic surgery to look caucasian.

but there's a lot of japanese magazines (not franchised magz) always features japanese too, although a lot of the models inside are mixed with caucasian or totall caucasian

 

[russh_kris_z]

Actually so many jap magazines feature asian models.. this in japan vogue nippon isnt even known that well!

 

[gr77]

People have to start seeing beauty beyond color. It's stupid that a piece of clothing/magazine won't sell because somebody's features are different or because of their skin color, etc.

I agree with you on that.
I also think that the situation is getting really sad with the models chosen for ads,eds,etc.The vast majority looks the same (white,very thin,"weird" looking,very young).Where's the diversity?

 

[ecec]

because they always look up to caucasian pyshically.

i dont agree with this. the japanese are arguably the most proud of their culture out of the east asians. their use of western models is just a manifestation of their confidence. on the contrary, one who is adamant about using their 'own' race / own models, do so out of some inferiority complex or need to overcompensate to the world. though japan has always been adapting foreign things into their own, they like to be a homogenous nation and not nearly the xenophiles that people like to believe.

also Vogue is not an important publication there. Vogue is so mediocre anyway that hardly anything is worth flipping through. like mishahoi said there is such a variant of subcultures that magazines cater to every niche demographic imaginable. because the culture is sophisticated enough to do so. nobody wants to look like some LV-Gucci-Prada tool with no style. the only people i saw in tokyo clutching their LV bags are chinese/korean immigrants or maybe a subculture called 'no style'.

lastly the lack of models is due to well, the lack of models. i dont think japan has many female fashion models. the average female height there is like 5'2. i definately stuck out like a sore thumb when i was there, which i never felt walking the streets of shanghai or beijing.