Model Behavior (PLEASE READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING)

[thatsfierce]

Oh, c'mon! Let Magda be whatever she wants!! Y'all so moralist b*tches.
And about Naomi's post: She did THAT

 

[Benn98]

I doubt it is a conscious effort to keep the staff low in diversity. A comparioson from the top of my head: Most supreme court judges are male in my country because 40+ years ago, far fewer women than men studied law. The best people are chosen for the job and it so happened to be a bunch of white men, because that was the best applicants at the time. That does not mean I go around crying "Shame on the courts!". None of the people who work at the court are to blame. In time, when a more diverse crowd becomes eligeble applicants, the lack of diversity will go away. It just takes time (for people to retire or get fired).

I do appreciate that Naomi is so outspoken about how far we have left to go though.

Not a good example, because what you're effectively saying is that there may not have been no suitable applicants (of other races) for any opening at any given stage.....which frankly speaking, I find criminally inaccurate. The UK has given the fashion world Edward, Pat, Simone Rocha...look at the staff of Dazed, ID.

I'll agree that it wasnt a concious decision and I deplore affirmative action, but my God, at some stage Alexandra must've looked at her team and thought 'wow, what's happening here?'. 'On the one hand I'm bombarded with complaints about not reflecting other demographics in the Uk, and on the other I have this exclusively white team of employees? What's the link here?' It doesnt take a genius to tie the two together, honestly. Furthermore, for the business she's in, giving a host of communities a voice should come with the territory. She shouldnt even have to think of hiring an Indian person (for example) to reflect Indian culture. This type of nitpicking would never have started if British Vogue just made a concious effort to showcase the various communities of the UK more often.

Naomi is more subtle, but like many I think she's trying to allude (in her opinion) why the magazine lacked so much diversity.

 

[anlabe32]

Why look at either of their pages, if it is so offensive and vulgar to you? Have the images caused you harm quite bizarre to me. The argument of the whole "free the nipple" 'movement' is that men pose topless on Instagram the entire time, but the moment a woman does, it is vulgar/p*rn*gr*phy.

I don't have anything against her breasts. It's just the way she exposes herself on Instagram that I find vulgar and trashy. If you want to show your breasts on social media there are dozens of ways to do it in a classier way. Magdalena is just seeking for attention. It's not the first time a "fallen" models does weird stuff on social media (*ahem* Snejana)

I also don't like what Naomi is doing. She's using this picture for her personal feud with British Vogue. It's not like 99% of the people in that picture can do anything about the lack of diversity. They got hired to do their job and their faces are now in a hateful post on a social media channel with more than a million followers.

 

[Benn98]

For the record, I'm not placing blame on any of the actual people in that picture and from that point I do agree with Anlabe. Imo it should be directly aimed at Alexandra Shulman.

 

[eizhowa]

Not a good example, because what you're effectively saying is that there may not have been no suitable applicants (of other races) for any opening at any given stage.....which frankly speaking, I find criminally inaccurate. The UK has given the fashion world Edward, Pat, Simone Rocha...look at the staff of Dazed, ID.

I'll agree that it wasnt a concious decision and I deplore affirmative action, but my God, at some stage Alexandra must've looked at her team and thought 'wow, what's happening here?'. 'On the one hand I'm bombarded with complaints about not reflecting other demographics in the Uk, and on the other I have this exclusively white team of employees? What's the link here?' It doesnt take a genius to tie the two together, honestly. Furthermore, for the business she's in, giving a host of communities a voice should come with the territory. She shouldnt even have to think of hiring an Indian person (for example) to reflect Indian culture. This type of nitpicking would never have started if British Vogue just made a concious effort to showcase the various communities of the UK more often.

Naomi is more subtle, but like many I think she's trying to allude (in her opinion) why the magazine lacked so much diversity.

I did not mean to give the impression that there were no applicants of other races. It was the belief that British Vogue should be ashamed that I reacted to.

I can easily imagine that in an interview, you hire the person most like yourself because it feels familiar (and I sort of have the feeling Shulman prefered the familiar.). This could be a person of a similar background or people who you are distantly related to or some far off acquaintances. And there are circles of family/friends where the wast majority are white. I find this a very plausible scenario.

Is it not also possible that the other employees would have recommended people for positions instead of hiring people the "normal way" (announce open position-CVs-interviews)? I am not very familiar with how British Vogue does things (so feel free to enlighten me, if anyone can), but from the little I have seen of the internal workings of privately owned companies, a lot of the hiring happens internally by recommendation. And if the people who already work there only know people from certain circles, the same kind of people will keep being hired.

Assuming that it is normal to hire from your "circle of people", then British Vogues only flaw is that the staff belongs to certain circles of people... It is just a though.

But I have heard that diversity is profitable so I am a bit amazed Shulman never made an effort for that reason alone.

Edit: So to sum up, while I do not find Shulmans method of hiring is the most optimal (for many reasons, and assuming the hiring happens somewhat along the lines of what I believe), I do find it understandable.

 

[Deleted member 130879]

Naomi is right but...

If she thinks inclusive means asking your millionaire friends to go work for you, she is way wrong. Sure you can ask you POC friends to go work for you and that will create a diverse environment but that is not inclusive. Inclusive is to give someone a job for their experience and talent and, I'm so so sorry, but where is Naomi's and Kate's experience working for a magazine? Where did they complete their studies? Which is their degree? Their credentials. They might get a more diverse picture but I doubt he will have a more inclusive one. I doubt he will get people in that actually deserve the job. I hope I'm wrong, I really do. There's too many unemployment (from lower classes/not the 1%) in the fashion industry.

Of course I'm saying it should be diverse and inclusive instead of just diverse. I'm saying that he can find POC from lower classes with credentials instead of going for Naomi or his "It"/"Instagram" friends.

 

[Benn98]

I can easily imagine that in an interview, you hire the person most like yourself because it feels familiar (and I sort of have the feeling Shulman prefered the familiar.). This could be a person of a similar background or people who you are distantly related to or some far off acquaintances. And there are circles of family/friends where the wast majority are white. I find this a very plausible scenario.

See, that there was her very first mistake. You can't hire someone with a similar viewpoint as yours or who even vaguely resemble you because fashion is a creative-driven and ever-changing industry. It will mean whatever you'll present will always be unilateral to some extent. American Vogue for instance is a mix and match (think Tonne to Grace to Camilla). These stylists are like chalk and cheese, their cultural backgrounds are different, and that's good because it means there will always be at least three different povs.

Also, context is very important here and when you look at the context of this situation you have a magazine which should supposedly cater to a vast demographic. Then you have your EIC who would normally step in with a vision, and assemble a team to execute said vision. This whole 'recommendation' and 'posh girl clique' is actually something I'd have thought Tatler would do because this hiring structure align with the ethos of that magazine. But not for the 2nd most profitable Vogue edition in the world.

Just to put this situation into perspective - I don't think there are any POC in the senior editorial team at American Vogue. And it doesnt actually matter to anybody because the magazine does it's best to cover all corners consistently.

As I said in my previous post, this witchhunt on the staff only started because people are trying to rationalise why exactly it is that British Vogue lacked so much in the diversity dept despite covering a myriad of different cultures.

And as for Naomi's new appointment, I can say that I was one of the first to oppose the idea of her and Kate (and some others) for Edward's Vogue purely because they don't have the merit to back it up. Here too, I'm not convinced Edward is following an ideal hiring practice but not having seen the magazine yet, it simply cannot be compared against Alexandra's 25 years to date.

 

[TREVOFASHIONISTO]

I think its strange that some of you on here are so concerned with her surgery and what she does with her body... I didnt see anything wrong with her nude photos, and she has a great body. There are plenty of male models with their ***es out and no one has an issue with that. Why is it different with her?

 

[Benn98]

I for one am convinced she sold her stuff to finance this boob job, or lips, or whatever else she had altered. I dunno, it's her business, she's allowed to change whatever she wants.
I'm certainly not buying that it was for a charity drive. Why not hand it over to them to broker the deal on Ebay? It would give her more time to twirl around on Italian patios with terribly dressed men while lifting her skirt for all of Instagram to see.

LOL that is the very definition of being a prude...

He did say that he was a prude, lol.

 

[fashionista-ta]

^^^^^ Right, it's well known that people have a strong tendency to hire other people like themselves. But everyone knows this, and we have something that fixes it called affirmative action.

It's not an accident anymore, now that we all know, and by the way, the problem *does not* fix itself. A conscious effort to overcome lack of diversity must be made, by every single hiring manager, and by every single person in HR. That's how the problem gets fixed, no other way.

 

[MulletProof]

If you want to show your breasts on social media there are dozens of ways to do it in a classier way.

I can't believe you reported her because she's not showing her breasts in what you consider a "classy" way.

model fans .. I know they take their past time very seriously but damn, next thing you know you'll be harassing her relatives like the other creepy member here that did that. Self-imposed boundaries work wonders on the internet, for the sake of self-respect (speaking of morals...).

 

[khyrk]

I can't believe you reported her because she's not showing her breasts in what you consider a "classy" way.

model fans .. I know they take their past time very seriously but damn, next thing you know you'll be harassing her relatives like the other creepy member here that did that. Self-imposed boundaries work wonders on the internet, for the sake of self-respect (speaking of morals...).

"If you don't like it, you don't have to look at it." - Xtina

 

[russianelf]

Naomi posted this on insta.

I was browsing through the mag and when I saw this photo, I thought 'why hasn't anyone dragged them yet' and voila, Naomi herself decides to do some scalping. Queen!

 

[anlabe32]

A conscious effort to overcome lack of diversity must be made, by every single hiring manager, and by every single person in HR. That's how the problem gets fixed, no other way.

Exactly, not by Naomi on social media like that.

I can't believe you reported her because she's not showing her breasts in what you consider a "classy" way.

model fans .. I know they take their past time very seriously but damn, next thing you know you'll be harassing her relatives like the other creepy member here that did that. Self-imposed boundaries work wonders on the internet, for the sake of self-respect (speaking of morals...).

Thanks for insulting me and that's not why I reported it.

 

[[Piece Of Me]]

YESS @ Naomi- drag them, girl! The office of Vogue UK is based in London, one of the most diverse cities in the world, and your whole office only exists of white people!? Surely you have to think that may be a bit weird (at least). It seems these people in charge are totally clueless when it comes to diversity and inclusion and it's so sad to see.

I think its strange that some of you on here are so concerned with her surgery and what she does with her body... I didnt see anything wrong with her nude photos, and she has a great body. There are plenty of male models with their ***es out and no one has an issue with that. Why is it different with her?

I know, right? Why would people take offence at a pair of boobs? Just look at Instagram and I see (half) naked men all around, flaunting their bodies, ***es, wearing jockstraps etc. etc. And nobody complains about that Double standards..

 

[Wintergreen]

Nothing wrong with Magdalena's picture. The concept of "female purity" is nothing more than patriarchal BS from the Middle Ages.

 

[Scotty]

Still looking for the comment that Lily liked

It was the first comment. Maybe she removed.

 

[dsamg]

Why look at either of their pages, if it is so offensive and vulgar to you? Have the images caused you harm quite bizarre to me. The argument of the whole "free the nipple" 'movement' is that men pose topless on Instagram the entire time, but the moment a woman does, it is vulgar/p*rn*gr*phy.



Is this a fact or just snark?

It is a fact that she sells her things on ebay, she posts about it often. Insta no longer has an anti-nipple policy. They will now only delete photos depicting sexual acts or showing genitals.

 

[eizhowa]

Benn98 and Fashionista-ta: I want to wrap this up by saying that I totally agree with you re. how hiring should be done




And re. Magda, I like my models a bit tacky. It makes life more fun

 

[tigerrouge]

What Naomi posted could also be described as a photo of an office that refused to use her in their magazine because they no longer wanted to put up with what they deemed her unprofessional behaviour.

I'm sure if I was used to getting my own way, I'd not be fond of those who said no to me.

It doesn't negate what UK Vogue has done over the years in terms of its content, but I kinda don't see Naomi as the Martin Luther King of modelling, I'd presume petty self-interest before anything else. But I suppose that could be said of anyone.