Model Behavior (PLEASE READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING)

[whippie]

^ That's awful. I know L'Oreal has hired Chris Brown to perform at an event - and even if he isn't a face of the brand, I think hiring him condones his actions. Yet they are not ok with this? What even is racist about it? She's telling the truth.

 

[Benn98]

Read this a few days ago and while I didn't agree with what she said, I could understand where the frustration came from. So it would've been all over but this morning that annoying old codger Piers Morgan returned to Good Morning Britain and kicked off with his usual trollish rhetoric by putting her in the hot seat, and calling her comments 'rubbish'. Sigh. Not sure why the Yanks can't keep him there!

 

[tigerrouge]

Either you hire people because they've got a social media following - and therefore you factor in that your "influencer" is going to express their opinions - or you go back to hiring professional models who just stand there and get their picture taken and don't have anything to say. PICK ONE.

I don't agree with what was said - but L'Oreal can't have it all their way.

 

[eizhowa]

^ That's awful. I know L'Oreal has hired Chris Brown to perform at an event - and even if he isn't a face of the brand, I think hiring him condones his actions. Yet they are not ok with this? What even is racist about it? She's telling the truth.

Well, some of it is really pushing it.

The first part - "Honestly I don't have energy to talk about the racial violence of white people any more. Yes ALL white people." -
suggest that all white people participate in racial violence. That is very different from saying something like "all white people have benefited from being white (due to oppression of other races)".

And frankly, singeling out white people as being inherently more violent is at least borderline racist. I personally believe that all humans can be violent and/or racist (I don't want to have the "only white people can be racist" debate if it can be avoided, please). It is not the color of a persons skin who determines how violent they are.

It is very possible that she meant something entirely different or at least would have meant something entirely different after a friendly exchange of opinions, but that is only speculation.

 

[Sweet rus]

Who is this model that doesn't even look like one? Anyway, I can't believe people might shame L'Oreal for it. I am totally against racism, and I honestly think that if you want a change, if you fight against inequality, start with yourself. Racism is not about discrimination against people of color, bashing white people is just as much of a racism, and just because people of color have suffered more throughout the history of humanity, does not make it ok to bash white people. I understand where the anger and frustration are coming from, but I honestly think some individuals take it too far and feel that everyone owes them things because his or her families were treated badly and anything that doesn't work out in their lives is because everyone is a racist. Just recently we have been talking about racism with my friends at work, and one shared how she witnessed a group of African American guys spitting on an Indian guy for no reason, and keep in my that we are living in a city like NY. Change starts with you

 

[mepps]

Everything she said was the absolute truth.

 

[eizhowa]

everything she said was the absolute truth.

wow.

Edit: Care to elaborate how ALL white people are participating in racial violence? I am genuinely intrigued.

 

[dsamg]

wow.

Edit: Care to elaborate how ALL white people are participating in racial violence? I am genuinely intrigued.

Lol, exactly! Complaining about racism whilst being completely racist herself.

 

[Littleathquakes]

Lol, exactly! Complaining about racism whilst being completely racist herself.

This is a microcosm is our society. It's become this "you are free to express your opinion as long as it agrees with mine" mentality.

 

[Benn98]

This is a microcosm is our society. It's become this "you are free to express your opinion as long as it agrees with mine" mentality.

True, but lets first agree that these type of flaming and blanketing statements doesn't help. I don't understand how it can bring people together at all.

I do agree with Tigerrouge regarding 'influencers' though. Maybe L'oreal should've just hired models such as Liya, Natasha, Karlie and Valentina Sampaio - business models who seem to avoid any form of controversy at all cost for fear of tarnishing their brand. But they didn't, they were thirsty for a 'trending' type of influencer to target the SM crowd and now they're sitting with a PR disaster. From that point I do't pity them.

 

[Littleathquakes]

I don't understand L'Oreal's thirst for relevancy by hiring this "model" (and I'm not quoting that to shade her trans status; I'm shading the fact that I' and many others have never heard of her), either. What did they expect to happen? That this brand that's commonly seen as being a highly integral piece in grandma's make up drawer will suddenly be copped by...15 year olds?

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ That's awful. I know L'Oreal has hired Chris Brown to perform at an event - and even if he isn't a face of the brand, I think hiring him condones his actions. Yet they are not ok with this? What even is racist about it? She's telling the truth.

Agreed. Even taken out of context, I fail to see what's so bad about what she said ... sounds true to me. Of course, some people are tremendously offended by the truth. Lots of people born with silver spoons in their mouths come to believe they put them there themselves.

Hope L'oreal ends up looking all Pepsi over this.

 

[fashionista-ta]

Well, some of it is really pushing it.

The first part - "Honestly I don't have energy to talk about the racial violence of white people any more. Yes ALL white people." -
suggest that all white people participate in racial violence. That is very different from saying something like "all white people have benefited from being white (due to oppression of other races)".

And frankly, singeling out white people as being inherently more violent is at least borderline racist. I personally believe that all humans can be violent and/or racist (I don't want to have the "only white people can be racist" debate if it can be avoided, please). It is not the color of a persons skin who determines how violent they are.

It is very possible that she meant something entirely different or at least would have meant something entirely different after a friendly exchange of opinions, but that is only speculation.

I haven't read her whole piece, but she could be referencing mass incarceration and/or police brutality. Both are sponsored by our entire society here in the US, which is majority ... white people. I believe what she's saying is that we're all culpable. If that's what she's saying, I basically agree.

Anyone have a link to the complete piece?

 

[fashionista-ta]

Who is this model that doesn't even look like one? Anyway, I can't believe people might shame L'Oreal for it. I am totally against racism, and I honestly think that if you want a change, if you fight against inequality, start with yourself. Racism is not about discrimination against people of color, bashing white people is just as much of a racism, and just because people of color have suffered more throughout the history of humanity, does not make it ok to bash white people. I understand where the anger and frustration are coming from, but I honestly think some individuals take it too far and feel that everyone owes them things because his or her families were treated badly and anything that doesn't work out in their lives is because everyone is a racist. Just recently we have been talking about racism with my friends at work, and one shared how she witnessed a group of African American guys spitting on an Indian guy for no reason, and keep in my that we are living in a city like NY. Change starts with you

I agree about where change starts.

It's also true that those guys who were being abusive don't represent all black people anymore than David Duke represents me. 'Bad' people come in all colors, and so do good people.

 

[eizhowa]

I haven't read her whole piece, but she could be referencing mass incarceration and/or police brutality. Both are sponsored by our entire society here in the US, which is majority ... white people. I believe what she's saying is that we're all culpable. If that's what she's saying, I basically agree.

Anyone have a link to the complete piece?

Not all white people live in the US..(Or are in a position to change the way the US does things). When discussing race-issues, being nuanced is important. She clearly does not understand that.

 

[dsamg]

Not all white people live in the US..

unfortunately there are more than a few Americans who think of the US as the centre of the world instead of just one country. The model in question is British, no? So I do find it odd that she would make a statement about a US incident and decide to implicate every white person worldwide.

There should be a general understanding that nobody should make sweeping generalisations about an entire group of people.

 

[StoneSkipper]

Here's an interview with Munroe on Channel 4 in which she elaborates on the matter (just please don't read the comments - I made that mistake so y'all don't have to

IMHO, it's worth a watch even if you don't agree with her opinion - she raises very valid and lucid points.

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ Thanks for posting the video.

So she was commenting on Charlottesville. It seems she expressed herself poorly. What she says in the video is that if you're white and you're doing nothing to dismantle racism, you're part of the problem. I pretty much agree with that.

eizhowa, lucky you to live in a country without (I assume) a history of slave trading. By far better never to start down that road, but for us it's a bit late ...

Btw, read about the history of sugar sometime. Amazing the dark places our sweet tooth took us ... "Sugar and spice and everything nice" ... not.

 

[billiejbob]

Some of these comments justifying her racism are awful.
You cannot fight racism with racism. Full stop.

The idea that if you're white but not actively doing anything to stop racism means that you're racist or part of the problem is utterly ridiculous!
I'm interested in what people who agree with her think white people SHOULD be doing to fight racism to therefore not "be racist" or part of the problem.

We as all people of colour, race, religion, nationality etc cannot physically fight EVERY battle or injustice in the world. So for her to say that a white person is racist because they're not actively fighting racism is utterly ridiculous.

If you're straight but you're not actively promoting rights of gay and lesbians does that make you homophobic?

If you're a citizen of one country but not actively taking in refugees into your own home or assisting refugees into coming to your country does that make you xenophobic?

If you're a Christian but not actively stopping anti-Semitism or promoting Jewish rights does that make you anti-Semitic?

Look, I think she chose her words incredibly poorly and she's now paying the price for that just like any other person would if they said something ridiculous as the spokesperson for a high profile brand. By keeping her on, L'Oreal would be identified as a racist brand for having a racist as their spokesperson. The backlash would be much more detrimental and widespread if they kept her.

Had she apologised immediately and clarified her words to say that the Charlottesville protests have uncovered extreme racism due to the rise of the white supremacists and KKK but these are fringe groups not representative of white America then everyone would have absolutely agreed with her and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[Benn98]

What she says in the video is that if you're white and you're doing nothing to dismantle racism, you're part of the problem. I pretty much agree with that.

Couldn't the same be said about POC who doesn't experience racism and don't do much (or anything) to dismantle it? Blacks being racist towards Latinos, Asians being racist towards Blacks etc etc. These people do exist, surely, and not all are celebrities, I'm sure.
I understand the crux of her statement, just don't understand why it must centre only on one group.