Model Behavior (PLEASE READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING)

[MulletProof]

Who would've guessed.. whenever you want to take your geography knowledge to the next level (is Tibet central or east Asia? is Greenland Europe, is it America, is Brazil Latin America, are the Falklands British or Argentinian?) look no further than a One Direction fan club.

I notice geography is presented differently depending on where you are. Pakistan is usually seen as Middle East (maybe just in America) due to political developments, cultural/religious elements they share with the neighbors... big deal.

This thread has made me reflect a lot on my personal life, I realised after knowing some guy for years and being "in love", I never knew exactly where he was born. Also forgot to ask about the ethnicity of my last BF. I actually only know where one of my grandparents (out of 3) was born. Boo hoo..

 

[vikingqueen]

It borders to the Middle East, so it is not like she thought Pakistan was in Africa.

I call Finland scandinavian all the time by mistake. Nobody ever got mad about it. * shrugs *

In no way shape or form does Pakistan border the Middle East lol...people associate Pakistan with the Middle E because it's a "Muslim" country - I mean, please tell me people at least know that Pakistan and India used to be ONE COUNTRY, right? Do people think that India borders the Middle East too?

 

[fashionista-ta]

worldatlas

Here's the map I referenced earlier--the first Google result for this topic. The Middle East is shown in grey. Per this map, India does border the Middle East.

Far as I know, what constitutes 'Middle East,' 'Scandinavia,' etc. are nowhere carved in stone. Some definitions include Egypt; this map does not.

 

[vikingqueen]

That map is wrong though. Completely wrong. India/Pakistan are South East ASIAN countries, and Afghanistan, Turkmenistan, are Central/South East Asian countries. I mean, Afghanistan shares a border with China!! And Iran is definitely not Middle Eastern, they are Persian and have a completely different history and culture.

The language groups in these countries are also not even close to Middle Eastern languages, they do not share the same etymologies. Ethnically, culturally, linguistically, they are NOT Middle Eastern.


I think it's also important to remember that the term Middle-East is a Western made term to refer to a shifting geo-political area, and has historically been used to refer to Turkey, Armenia, etc, as much as Iraq and Syria. But, I don't think even in the annals of the most Orientalist literature I've come across, has Pakistan been referred to as Middle Eastern.

And geographically, Egypt is an African country

 

[Benn98]

Here's the map I referenced earlier--the first Google result for this topic. The Middle East is shown in grey. Per this map, India does border the Middle East.

Far as I know, what constitutes 'Middle East,' 'Scandinavia,' etc. are nowhere carved in stone. Some definitions include Egypt; this map does not.

That map is a liar, and brazenly inaccurate! No way does India border the Middle East, even if I never saw a map in my life, I'd never have assumed it to be the case. Linguistically, culturally, it's like chalk and cheese to me. I'm shocked this this is even being discussed. And in our schools, Scandinavia never, ever included Finland, just as Egypt was always regarded as North Africa (don't tell them that, though, lol).

Oh, and karma to Vikingqueen, my star of the day, for breaking it down so neatly!

 

[eizhowa]

Benn98 language is a living thing and if Scandinavia sometimes mean Finland and sometimes it doesn't and it doesn't matter. The point of language is to communicate, and even though language is very imprecise, most of the time we still manage to understand each other perfectly fine.

This is an absolutely pointless discussion seeing as we don't actually disagree about anything other than semantics.

 

[eizhowa]

In no way shape or form does Pakistan border the Middle East lol...people associate Pakistan with the Middle E because it's a "Muslim" country - I mean, please tell me people at least know that Pakistan and India used to be ONE COUNTRY, right? Do people think that India borders the Middle East too?

Iran borders to Pakistan and I felt quite certain Iran was considered a part of the middle east.

I don't know how old Iran (I am guessing old) is, but it seems likely that it shared a border with India at one point, when Pakistan was a part of India. And if Iran is in the middle east, then yes, India shared a border with the middle east.

 

[tigerrouge]

The world can't decide whether Northern Ireland is/should be described as British or Irish, so I gave up caring about what label the world puts on it (or me) some time ago, and that's an approach I can recommend.

 

[vikingqueen]

Iran borders to Pakistan and I felt quite certain Iran was considered a part of the middle east.

I don't know how old Iran (I am guessing old) is, but it seems likely that it shared a border with India at one point, when Pakistan was a part of India. And if Iran is in the middle east, then yes, India shared a border with the middle east.

Hmmm, yes it is quite old. I would suggest reading up on the Persian Empire since it was indeed one of the most ancient, powerful empires in the world. And Iran is NOT "Middle Eastern"- the designation only works if you take the term "Middle East" to refer to the whole of Western Asia, which is problematic at best. Also, Iran is a huge country. Geographically, its both a part of the Caucus (regions near Armenia and Azerbaijan) and part of South Asia (regions near Afghanistan and Baluchistan). The "Middle east" ends at the western border of Iran.

Again, the term "Middle East" is in and of itself an almost nonsensical term, since it fluctuates at the whim of foreign political powers who like to come into this area of the world and re-draw borders every now and again

I think what needs to be borne in mind is this tendency to completely erase cultural and ethnic distinctions and conflate Middle East-Arab-Muslim, so that all of a sudden a Pakistani is a Middle-Eastern Arab-speaker or an Iranian is an Arab. Trust me, both would be quite insulted if you referred to them as such (not that there is ANYTHING wrong with being either, but the point is you're assuming there is no difference based on sketchy religious and racial assumptions rooted in screwed up geopolitical policies created by interventionist neo-colonialist foreign powers).

And so it's NOT semantics, words and labels have political and material power and purchase. Ask any Sikh person who gets harassed for being an "Arab" or a "Muslim".

Phew ...I will step off my soap box. I take this personally since I am from this region, and this casual erasure of such a vibrant, culturally diverse and distinct area drives me CRAZY.

 

[eizhowa]

I guess it is just a cultural difference. I am not offended when foreigners think Norway is in Sweden, for example. But I can understand how a countrys history could make you feel different.

But I repeat; I don't think we actually disagree on anything except which definition to use. Names, labels etc do not mean anything to me. Only the people do, regardless of what you call them

 

[fashionista-ta]

It appears to me that in geography, as in all other areas, there is no absolute truth ... and I'm fine with that.

 

[vikingqueen]

I guess it is just a cultural difference. I am not offended when foreigners think Norway is in Sweden, for example. But I can understand how a countrys history could make you feel different.

But I repeat; I don't think we actually disagree on anything except which definition to use. Names, labels etc do not mean anything to me. Only the people do, regardless of what you call them

Lol, it's so funny that you mention Norway/Sweden, since I'm actually half Norwegian (my mum is from Mo i Rana) and my Norwegian grandmother got VERY insulted when someone mistook her for Danish! (not so much Swedish though, so perhaps it does depend on the particular histories of countries!)

I hope I didn't come off too harsh, never mind veering far off topic! I just think it's important to be mindful of how labels actually do carry meaning and have effects for some people (whether labelled correctly or incorrectly!)

 

[eizhowa]

Lol, it's so funny that you mention Norway/Sweden, since I'm actually half Norwegian (my mum is from Mo i Rana) and my Norwegian grandmother got VERY insulted when someone mistook her for Danish! (not so much Swedish though, so perhaps it does depend on the particular histories of countries!)

I hope I didn't come off too harsh, never mind veering far off topic! I just think it's important to be mindful of how labels actually do carry meaning and have effects for some people (whether labelled correctly or incorrectly!)

Well who wouldn't be insulted if mistaken for a dane?! I mean, oh the disgrace! Just kidding, of course Denmark forever

I actually guessed you had some norwegian roots from your name

 

[vikingqueen]

Well who wouldn't be insulted if mistaken for a dane?! I mean, oh the disgrace! Just kidding, of course Denmark forever

I actually guessed you had some norwegian roots from your name

Lol!! Poor Danes ...for the record, I think Danish men are the most gorgeous men on Earth, so they're good with me! (Sorry bestamor!!)

Always gotta rep the Norske!!

 

[squilliam]

From what I know the middle east is southwest asia, in particular the Arab speaking countries. Afghanistan and Iran tend to get lumped in there though despite not being Arab countries. Egypt, Tunisia, and Morocco are included sometimes as well. Although, Tunisia and Morocco have a very different form of arabic than the other countries, and most arabic speakers can't really understand it. Egypt also has a somewhat different arabic dialect, but it could be understood. As an Iraqi and having lived in the middle east, the notion I get is that Iran and anything east of it isn't really part of the group (Iran is Persian; Persians and Arabs are for the most part enemies and have been for centuries).
What I find strange is that Gigi is half Palestinian, I would think she'd know at least something about her mid eastern heritage...enough to know that Pakistan is not mid eastern. Although having been through the American school system, they don't seem to really care much about world geography so in a way it's not surprising?

 

[dauphine]

Alek Wek:
Runway supermodel Alek Wek is skeptical of the newer Instagram-model trend.

“I think the fashion industry has gotten to a place where it is embarrassing. When I think of ‘Instagram models,’ I say you have to take baby steps. You cannot just walk straight onto the runway. When I was working, there was no digital. We actually worked, we used Polaroids,” she told us.

Wek, who’s walked for labels such as Chanel, Gucci, Dior and YSL, added: “Anything that those girls get for instant gratification, [they’ll] have to pay for it later.”

http://pagesix.com/2016/10/23/supermodel-instagram-models-are-an-embarrassment/?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=P6Twitter&utm_medium=SocialFlow

 

[happycanadian]

Awesome article from VOX on the Middle East

http://www.vox.com/a/maps-explain-the-middle-east

 

[dsamg]

Although having been through the American school system, they don't seem to really care much about world geography so in a way it's not surprising?

In defence of Americans, I wouldn't say that we learn very much about the Middle East here in Australia. I'm not her biggest fan but I think the poor girl can probably be left alone now. Many people around the world make ignorant and stupid comments about our geography here in Australasia also but it is not really important, we can't all know everything about every part of the world. She made a mistake.

 

[GeneticallyChill]

Alek Wek:
Runway supermodel Alek Wek is skeptical of the newer Instagram-model trend.

“I think the fashion industry has gotten to a place where it is embarrassing. When I think of ‘Instagram models,’ I say you have to take baby steps. You cannot just walk straight onto the runway. When I was working, there was no digital. We actually worked, we used Polaroids,” she told us.

Wek, who’s walked for labels such as Chanel, Gucci, Dior and YSL, added: “Anything that those girls get for instant gratification, [they’ll] have to pay for it later.”

http://pagesix.com/2016/10/23/supermodel-instagram-models-are-an-embarrassment/?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=P6Twitter&utm_medium=SocialFlow

I wish they would stop asking established models about these insta models. No matter what they say, it'll always be misconstrued.

 

[dsamg]

From Anja L's Instagram story love it

https://postimage.org/index.php?lang=french
Screenshotted by me