Most Overpriced Designer? #3

[blueorchid]

Extremely high prices also betray the principles of prêt-à-porter. At those price points, I sell couture, which caters to a completely different clientele.

I'm glad SOMEONE finally said it.

(yes yes, everyone on tFS is rich and part of the elite, etc. and on the internet no one knows you're a dog, etc.)

 

[TaylorBinque]

There is a reason why Prada stores are always empty in Bangkok

 

[FashionPower]

Increase of Prada has been such a joke!

It's funny cause everyone in the circle knows Saffiano "leather" is not even real conventional leather.
Anyway, if you notice, the material difference in most items is already included in the "fixed" production costs and retail price. Nowadays canvas bags have the same retail price of the leather ones, even if the former features a much cheaper in terms of raw material and overall lower quality material. They switched to this method to increase margins on canvas material, you're buying a PU bag for the price of a leather one...it's insane!

 

[FashionPower]

Genuine question, but why has the price of luxury shoes (and accessories to some extent) increased only slightly over the last ten years, but the price of the clothes has increased astronomically? It makes no sense to me.

The RTW of any major luxury brand is always the lowest performing and smallest margin of sales, yet instead of the brands making the pricing more alluring so that they can attract more clientele and drive sales, it keeps going up and up and up to the point now where RTW is almost impossible to sell, even to the top 1%.

And then you have these CEO's scratching their heads at why the RTW doesn't sell? Really?

The price point right now of RTW is ridiculous. I look at Dior Men for example and see this stuff and it makes me so sad that this is what Dior has become. And they have the AUDACITY to write something like this :

"Celebrating the House's heritage and inventiveness, the new creations by Kim Jones add touches of audacity to all looks. These objects of desire, combining elegance and functionality, reflect the timeless modernity of Dior style."

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

It's not that simple but it makes sense if you think about it.
Aspirational customers are only interested in bags, shoes and logo recognizable stuff: increasing prices of these does not harm the sells as most aspirational customers are not aware of how the high fashion world works and they are willing on spending to flex or to get an heirloom or a basic reward for an accomplishment. You would be shocked to know the amount of "dumb" delusional women who gets a Saint Laurent LouLou, a Louis Vuitton Neverfull, a Love Cartier bracelet or a Dior book tote only because they got a new job, bought a new home or closed an important deal...
This is why brands can get away with the constant prices increases: uber rich people (the top 1%) couldn't care less to splurge 10k on a Valentino gown or 10k on a basic CHANEL tweed jacket and wouldn't care even if the price skyrocketed to 20k. The aspirational customers are not interested in such items from the beginning and only focus on status symbol items, for such items the higher price is never a problem...and never will be

 

[tourbillions]

everyone on tFS is rich and part of the elite, etc. and on the internet no one knows you're a dog

what do you mean?? honey, we are the fashion circle.

 

[LadyJunon]

Extremely high prices also betray the principles of prêt-à-porter. At those price points, I sell couture, which caters to a completely different clientele.

@Lola701, do you have the link to the full article? I find this statement really interesting because it reveals how his age influences his mindset (in a good way). While he started his house later in life, he's the same age as that generation that created designer ready-to-wear where the original goal was making the ideas of Haute Couture more approachable and accessible for the every(wo)man. The model of RTW demanding thousands only emerged in the 80s when HC became a loss-leader and brands started depending more on licensed products to fund the HC operations.

 

[tourbillions]

blame the russians who are desperate to dispense their moneys so they would buy anything at any price

 

[blueorchid]

what do you mean?? honey, we are the fashion circle.

ooooooh, just certain things I've noticed about the claims certain users make 💅

 

[FashionPower]

What do you think the actual margins on a Prada Galleria in Saffiano are nowadays?
It's 3800 bucks for the medium size:
- Production:
-- I have no info on leather cutting / sewing operations, most probably not performed in Italy anyway
-- I assume all assembly operations (zippers, tags and such) are performed in China or Romania, so close to 0
-- I also assume not even a single operation is performed in Italy, hence they don't have the play that trick like Valentino and Dior does with the "made in Italy" claim
- Logistics & transportation: same as other brands I believe
- Raw materials:
-- Saffiano "leather": as basic as LV canvas or Fendi Zucca, maybe slightly more pricy
-- Hardware: I assume hardware is manufactured in China and then galvanized / plated in other countries? Or anything done in China?

If a Dior book tote manufactured in a chinese sweatshop in Italy is 50x, I expect a Galleria manufactured in Romania to be 40x (slightly higher price of raw material and labour), hence production cost of 95 euro, which makes totally sense as most medium sized leather goods are around 100ish in production costs.

 

[yslforever]

What do you think the actual margins on a Prada Galleria in Saffiano are nowadays?
It's 3800 bucks for the medium size:
- Production:
-- I have no info on leather cutting / sewing operations, most probably not performed in Italy anyway
-- I assume all assembly operations (zippers, tags and such) are performed in China or Romania, so close to 0
-- I also assume not even a single operation is performed in Italy, hence they don't have the play that trick like Valentino and Dior does with the "made in Italy" claim
- Logistics & transportation: same as other brands I believe
- Raw materials:
-- Saffiano "leather": as basic as LV canvas or Fendi Zucca, maybe slightly more pricy
-- Hardware: I assume hardware is manufactured in China and then galvanized / plated in other countries? Or anything done in China?

If a Dior book tote manufactured in a chinese sweatshop in Italy is 50x, I expect a Galleria manufactured in Romania to be 40x (slightly higher price of raw material and labour), hence production cost of 95 euro, which makes totally sense as most medium sized leather goods are around 100ish in production costs.

Saffiano is not rubberised canvas, it's embossed, hard-pressed leather, the cross hatch print is hot-stamped all over the wax/finish that coats the leather. Meaning all visibles qualities of the leather are useless because it's totally covered in wax and the motif is stamped, so they can use the lowest quality hides available and still disguise the flaws under a heavy coat of finish and hotpress it.
The joke is letting the customers think a Saffiano leather is equivalent to high-quality hide while in fact they just went for the thickest and cheapest leather available.
And yes, they ditched the "Made in Italy" long time ago but they think that Italian sounding terms like "Prada", Galleria", "Saffiano", "Milano" etc are enough to make their customers believe their bags have been hand-sewn and pampered by sweet old nonnas in little Tuscan villages since 1913, "an authentic fusion between industrial precision and the refined accuracy of craftsmanship that can only be performed by hand" (Prada.com). And they might be right, what percentage of customers actually check the quality and provenance ?
You're right it's probably a 30x for Saffiano and a 50x for nylon.

 

[FashionPower]

I love checking prices of new items from CHANEL when the latest collections get released on the website
10k for "technical jacquard" (PU or lining?) skiing jumpsuit anyone?
By the way, the new website layout sucks, so much white blank space...

 

[Lola701]

Genuine question, but why has the price of luxury shoes (and accessories to some extent) increased only slightly over the last ten years, but the price of the clothes has increased astronomically? It makes no sense to me.

The RTW of any major luxury brand is always the lowest performing and smallest margin of sales, yet instead of the brands making the pricing more alluring so that they can attract more clientele and drive sales, it keeps going up and up and up to the point now where RTW is almost impossible to sell, even to the top 1%.

Is it still the case though?
I mean, the simplification of designs and finishings and economy of scales have changed the business.

When Chanel/Dior sells a 850€ printed cotton t-shirt, the margin are insane. When designers aren’t selling denim pieces at less than 1K. There are more people paying full prices for an entry-level designer piece (a pair of jeans for example) than before.

I have said it many times but the principles of the past that were about « the clothes are the accessories for the bags and shoes » are not valid anymore.
They are making money from every category and so the prices are increasing everywhere.

I wonder how much are the margins at Celine. The merch seems reasonably priced for a HF brand (390/450/500) for a tank top or a tshirt.

I find it so insane to spend 300€ on a tshirt. It’s literally the worst part of consumerism.

 

[yslforever]

Is it still the case though?
I mean, the simplification of designs and finishings and economy of scales have changed the business.

When Chanel/Dior sells a 850€ printed cotton t-shirt, the margin are insane. When designers aren’t selling denim pieces at less than 1K. There are more people paying full prices for an entry-level designer piece (a pair of jeans for example) than before.

I have said it many times but the principles of the past that were about « the clothes are the accessories for the bags and shoes » are not valid anymore.
They are making money from every category and so the prices are increasing everywhere.

I wonder how much are the margins at Celine. The merch seems reasonably priced for a HF brand (390/450/500) for a tank top or a tshirt.

I find it so insane to spend 300€ on a tshirt. It’s literally the worst part of consumerism.

It's more 550 € the plain cotton t-shirt at Celine and the infamous "Miss Dior" ones (also just printed on white cotton) are at 980 €.

 

[tourbillions]

I find it so insane to spend 300€ on a tshirt.

we have tisci to thank for that... id like to think his bambi tshirts started it all with the middle seams at the back. atleast the art was more interesting that the plain logo t shirts these days.

 

[youthinasia]

we have tisci to thank for that... id like to think his bambi tshirts started it all with the middle seams at the back. atleast the art was more interesting that the plain logo t shirts these days.

Ah yes, the era when a t-shirt/sweatshirt was the most coveted item in fashion.

 

[george5]

I agree with every post saying that high fashion prices are just ridiculous these days; a vanity competition at this point. It’s crazy to think that fashion houses are charging 20-30k for a mass produced plastic item when in 2015-2016 for the same amount you could get a limited edition lesage tweed Chanel suit or a Saint Laurent hand-embroidered jacket.

 

[Lola701]

we have tisci to thank for that... id like to think his bambi tshirts started it all with the middle seams at the back. atleast the art was more interesting that the plain logo t shirts these days.

Yes, at least, Tisci added a value to those tshirts. It was a special print that he worked on every season. And the reality was that Givenchy was quite well priced too.

Even Lanvin, Alber did his seasonal tshirts and they were great and fun.

Regarding the prices, there are so many propositions today that it has become almost easy to give up on some brands. There are great contemporary brands. For luxury brands, except for a few, paying full retail price is a no.
It’s been a longtime since I have gave up on Prada/MiuMiu for example. The pricing at Prada doesn’t make sense at every category except maybe perfumes.

 

[tourbillions]

yoox is everyone's bestfriend specially if you already know the brand's sizing. Definitely doesn't make sense to pay full retail prices these days, specially since online outlets are already quite well stocked with the amount of products these brands are producing. Even if the prices were less in the past, you knew the products were limited to a few from each store and the probability of seeing items you like in the outlet is very slim. Now its almost sure youll find the things you want in the outlet.

 

[FashionPower]

Nicholas, gurl, we know you wanna get another 10mil mansion in LA to spend 90% of the year with your BF Drew Kuhse...but 8k for a Vuitton silk bandeau and a leather belt...the audacity of calling this "DRESS" is hilarious, it's a beach attire at maximum

 

[FashionPower]

Saffiano is not rubberised canvas, it's embossed, hard-pressed leather, the cross hatch print is hot-stamped all over the wax/finish that coats the leather. Meaning all visibles qualities of the leather are useless because it's totally covered in wax and the motif is stamped, so they can use the lowest quality hides available and still disguise the flaws under a heavy coat of finish and hotpress it.
The joke is letting the customers think a Saffiano leather is equivalent to high-quality hide while in fact they just went for the thickest and cheapest leather available.
And yes, they ditched the "Made in Italy" long time ago but they think that Italian sounding terms like "Prada", Galleria", "Saffiano", "Milano" etc are enough to make their customers believe their bags have been hand-sewn and pampered by sweet old nonnas in little Tuscan villages since 1913, "an authentic fusion between industrial precision and the refined accuracy of craftsmanship that can only be performed by hand" (Prada.com). And they might be right, what percentage of customers actually check the quality and provenance ?
You're right it's probably a 30x for Saffiano and a 50x for nylon.

But if Sandro is able to make Saffiano from PU, why wouldn't Prada do the same? This is why I assume they even stopped using leather for Saffiano products since ages...