Designer & Fashion Insiders Behavior (PLEASE READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING)

[Lola701]

I suppose if you only look at red carpet styling, perhaps ones view on what a stylist does is quite limited. However, at the core, a stylist helps to cultivate and define a particular mood or idea someone has via what they wear (whether they are on a red carpet, an album cover, a magazine cover, a movie, a music video, or hell, a commercial for a new drug).

I do find it interesting that so many people, here especially, regard styling as BS or completely trivial. I could make that argument about many other careers in and outside of fashion, however, it doesn't make them any less important. I mean, if you remove a stylist from the equation in any of the aspects I mentioned above, what do you actually have at the output of something when you take into account how important visual storytelling is? Could you imagine a film without a costume designer (a form of styling as far as I'm concerned), or a fashion show that wasn't "edited" and just presented as just a mix of things (that argument could still be made in some cases, but I digress)?

I think there’s always that dismissive attitude towards celebrity styling because over the past decade or so, it has mostly been about « putting look 10 of a runway show on a celebrity ». Essentially there’s this consensus in TFI that I mean you needs to credit the original stylist who doesn’t get recognized really for it Art. If you hear the whispers around Law Roach’s styling mostly for Zendaya, there’s this formula of him doing (Look XXX + Louboutin So Kate/Pigalle).

That being said, it’s a lot of logistic indeed. But I think what is interesting about Law Roach and very particular with him is that he came with a plan. His biggest creation is Zendaya. He established her as a fashion icon and elevated himself. The goal was to get the contracts and the industry was also ready to open doors for him.

He created a new way to approach styling..

When Chanel officially started that Ambassadors thing years ago, none of those people had stylists and the cool girls who who had stylists were invited to shows, seen as socialites, received gifts and all.
If you think about Anna Mouglalis or Diane Kruger, when they became ambassadors, none of them had a stylists. They dealt directly with the PR at Chanel and for special events, Karl designed their clothes. In the middle of that they might have done a little beauty or bag campaign somewhere…

The celebrity stylists who managed to have a dual-career (celebrity/HF) usually already came from HF, where they made relationships with brands.

I’m sure @susseinmcswanny makes a difference between the work of a costume designer for a film/ music video/ show and the work of a celebrity stylist.

Maybe indeed that needs to be put into perspective: the celebrity is a project as much as a film or a play.

 

[susseinmcswanny]

I misspoke saying all stylists are what I described. I was really talking about the methods of Law and people like him. Styling itself is truly an art. And to create an image for a celebrity is a big project indeed. Just sometimes when you're pulling full looks from runways and archives, there's no cohesiveness. You're just wearing different trophies (Lola I took that terminology from you and run with it every day lol). The mood being created is a person with no personality. Granted yes there comes the work of actually getting those looks to pull. But when I think of a good stylist, I think of someone who could pull from tons of different designers, archive, thrift, whatever, and create that specific, curated look and mood in a cohesive way that's relevant to the personality of who you're creating for or what you're trying to create. You could have components of Yohji, Dior, Margiela, Balenciaga, hell even Philipp Plein, whatever, all from different worlds, coming together to make a new mood/narrative, whatever it be. Right now there's just a whole lot of "I'M WEARING X DESIGNER FALL WINTER XX ARCHIVE MAJORRR". zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Drusilla_]

I suppose if you only look at red carpet styling, perhaps ones view on what a stylist does is quite limited. However, at the core, a stylist helps to cultivate and define a particular mood or idea someone has via what they wear (whether they are on a red carpet, an album cover, a magazine cover, a movie, a music video, or hell, a commercial for a new drug).

I do find it interesting that so many people, here especially, regard styling as BS or completely trivial. I could make that argument about many other careers in and outside of fashion, however, it doesn't make them any less important. I mean, if you remove a stylist from the equation in any of the aspects I mentioned above, what do you actually have at the output of something when you take into account how important visual storytelling is? Could you imagine a film without a costume designer (a form of styling as far as I'm concerned), or a fashion show that wasn't "edited" and just presented as just a mix of things (that argument could still be made in some cases, but I digress)?

I'm not speaking about Law Roach in that quote but as a general point, the work of styling these days seems to be rather nebulous, with anyone and everyone considering themselves entitled to styling opportunities for having dug up a photograph (which, in an ironic twist, was uncredited) and I have a feeling @susseinmcswanny and I were both thinking of the same exact situation where some so-called "fashion historian" (read: instagram account that posts old pics) dug up a picture of a vintage Versace dress, tagged Bella Hadid as being the perfect person to wear it, then threw a huge tantrum via stories when Bella did wear it on the Cannes red carpet (styled by, incidentally, none other than Law Roach) because she - who hadn't credited the original Getty images photographer or even bothered to license the picture, and didn't actually work in the industry - was denied "credit" and a "styling opportunity". (the posts about it are probably some pages ago in this very thread)

I'm sorry if that came across as sounding that I thought LR was the one whose job was bullsh*t, because in the context of a visual field like fashion, it isn't and a good stylist can basically make a celeb's career by elevating their image as he did with Zendaya and Rachel Zoe did with her Zoebots - but it is bullsh*t when people think "visual storytelling" and its role in styling is nothing more than finding a picture, and that some idiot with an instagram account has "intellectual property rights" over a picture she posted or involves any rights over the dress in that picture being worn on the red carpet. If that's who gets to claim that things are their "ideas", then it really is bullsh*t - but in that case, Law Roach did the actual work of contacting Versace and getting that dress, getting accessories to match, collaborating with Bella to style the overall look etc. But there is a lot of fashion peripheral jobs that is bullsh*t - obsessions with status, basically.

 

[gunsnroses]

And now Law walked Boss.

DJ Khaled walked the show as well so it’s really not impressive

 

[LostInNJ]

I misspoke saying all stylists are what I described. I was really talking about the methods of Law and people like him. Styling itself is truly an art. And to create an image for a celebrity is a big project indeed. Just sometimes when you're pulling full looks from runways and archives, there's no cohesiveness. You're just wearing different trophies (Lola I took that terminology from you and run with it every day lol). The mood being created is a person with no personality. Granted yes there comes the work of actually getting those looks to pull. But when I think of a good stylist, I think of someone who could pull from tons of different designers, archive, thrift, whatever, and create that specific, curated look and mood in a cohesive way that's relevant to the personality of who you're creating for or what you're trying to create. You could have components of Yohji, Dior, Margiela, Balenciaga, hell even Philipp Plein, whatever, all from different worlds, coming together to make a new mood/narrative, whatever it be. Right now there's just a whole lot of "I'M WEARING X DESIGNER FALL WINTER XX ARCHIVE MAJORRR". zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I'm not speaking about Law Roach in that quote but as a general point, the work of styling these days seems to be rather nebulous, with anyone and everyone considering themselves entitled to styling opportunities for having dug up a photograph (which, in an ironic twist, was uncredited) and I have a feeling @susseinmcswanny and I were both thinking of the same exact situation where some so-called "fashion historian" (read: instagram account that posts old pics) dug up a picture of a vintage Versace dress, tagged Bella Hadid as being the perfect person to wear it, then threw a huge tantrum via stories when Bella did wear it on the Cannes red carpet (styled by, incidentally, none other than Law Roach) because she - who hadn't credited the original Getty images photographer or even bothered to license the picture, and didn't actually work in the industry - was denied "credit" and a "styling opportunity". (the posts about it are probably some pages ago in this very thread)

I'm sorry if that came across as sounding that I thought LR was the one whose job was bullsh*t, because in the context of a visual field like fashion, it isn't and a good stylist can basically make a celeb's career by elevating their image as he did with Zendaya and Rachel Zoe did with her Zoebots - but it is bullsh*t when people think "visual storytelling" and its role in styling is nothing more than finding a picture, and that some idiot with an instagram account has "intellectual property rights" over a picture she posted or involves any rights over the dress in that picture being worn on the red carpet. If that's who gets to claim that things are their "ideas", then it really is bullsh*t - but in that case, Law Roach did the actual work of contacting Versace and getting that dress, getting accessories to match, collaborating with Bella to style the overall look etc. But there is a lot of fashion peripheral jobs that is bullsh*t - obsessions with status, basically.

I appreciate both of your responses, and you too @Lola701!

I think I initially read it that way, just do to the topic at hand. With that said, I definitely agree that "styling/stylist" has gotten to a point where it does appear that it's a race to pull something off the runway ASAP or pull a super old archive piece as a flex as opposed to really believing in the look, if that makes sense. The term stylists is now thrown around just as much as supermodel these days.

 

[MulletProof]

His biggest creation is Zendaya.

This is something I keep seeing around social media and ??. Zendaya is undeniably talented and has one of the most promising careers in Hollywood. She's won Golden Globes and Emmys, her incredibly corny, ill-fitted style and the PR to push her as some 'fashion force' is very recent and would make no difference on her popularity since she basically carries one of the most popular shows in the past decade all by herself and has the type of personality that embodies the zeitgeist so to speak.

I'm not even a fan but do find the 'he made her!' sexist. She would actually be better off without him, dressing less like the fantasy of some dude obsessed with 'fierce moments' or sLaYiNg, and more like an A-list actress with the level of talent that is unperturbed with or without a stylist. Same thing happened with Anya Taylor Joy, this guy kept dressing her like she was a guest, or like some attention-starved influencer that is thrilled to be invited to the Emmys, they can't dress like this after a certain level of success, you need to dress like the Emmys should thank you for showing up.

I saw the video where Zendaya arrives late at LV and finds her seat next to Emma Stone (where she belongs!) and this guy is trailing behind and looks genuinely baffled that there is no front row seat for him next to them, so Zendaya points at a seat behind her (in *gasp* second row) and he seems blindsided lol. I looked him up and saw that he does make every effort to be on the red carpet with her (look at how he built a side character for her Met Gala number so he could tag along ). That LV interaction is this guy's problem in a nutshell: he thinks being behind the scenes or somewhere 'behind' a star is beneath him, and he's naive enough to think being invited at some show in Miami of all places, is the start of a career in the limelight..

Anyway, I'm still surprised that people in the industry can be such lapdogs, styledotcom being like 'HE IS BACK'.. yeah because he left.. yesterday?

 

[Lola701]

This is something I keep seeing around social media and ??. Zendaya is undeniably talented and has one of the most promising careers in Hollywood. She's won Golden Globes and Emmys, her incredibly corny, ill-fitted style and the PR to push her as some 'fashion force' is very recent and would make no difference on her popularity since she basically carries one of the most popular shows in the past decade all by herself and has the type of personality that embodies the zeitgeist so to speak.

I'm not even a fan but do find the 'he made her!' sexist. She would actually be better off without him, dressing less like the fantasy of some dude obsessed with 'fierce moments' or sLaYiNg, and more like an A-list actress with the level of talent that is unperturbed with or without a stylist. Same thing happened with Anya Taylor Joy, this guy kept dressing her like she was a guest, or like some attention-starved influencer that is thrilled to be invited to the Emmys, they can't dress like this after a certain level of success, you need to dress like the Emmys should thank you for showing up.

I saw the video where Zendaya arrives late at LV and finds her seat next to Emma Stone (where she belongs!) and this guy is trailing behind and looks genuinely baffled that there is no front row seat for him next to them, so Zendaya points at a seat behind her (in *gasp* second row) and he seems blindsided lol. I looked him up and saw that he does make every effort to be on the red carpet with her (look at how he built a side character for her Met Gala number so he could tag along ). That LV interaction is this guy's problem in a nutshell: he thinks being behind the scenes or somewhere 'behind' a star is beneath him, and he's naive enough to think being invited at some show in Miami of all places, is the start of a career in the limelight..

Anyway, I'm still surprised that people in the industry can be such lapdogs, styledotcom being like 'HE IS BACK'.. yeah because he left.. yesterday?

I don’t think he made her but I definitely think that his biggest creation is her. His accomplishment in the industry and what he is known for is styling Zendaya. That’s the « project » that opened all the doors for him…

I loved Celine Dion’s style before Law Roach, when she was the first to wear Balmain by Decarnin, when her style felt less « forced ».

Beyond loyalty, I think that he is totally aware that the more she rises, the more it benefits him.

I think and I’m sure he is the mastermind behind « Zendaya the fashion icon »…A but like Mel Ottenberg is the mastermind behind « Rihanna the fashion icon ». She is more than lost without him but we love her and give her a pass even her stylist put her in the most horrrendous designs.

The problem with the hype around Law’s supposed retirement is that because there are very few black voices that are heard, recognized and highlighted in a way, people are holding on to some people because they have some sort of fame. When you see « fashion need you », no fashion don’t needs him now because he has not contributed to something substential in fashion. It’s a bit like ALT, may he Rest In Peace, but people loved him for what he was. His contribution to fashion, beyond his persona, is not that memorable.

But really, Law’s Roach creation in fashion is Zendaya but tbh, I’m much impressed by Cardi B stylist. It’s not my style but I think he overcame much more challenges and in vulgarity that I find touching, she has became a kind of fashion girl in her own rights.

I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that Law Roach is represented by agency soon and he will sign contracts!

 

[velvetandsilk]

I saw the video where Zendaya arrives late at LV and finds her seat next to Emma Stone (where she belongs!) and this guy is trailing behind and looks genuinely baffled that there is no front row seat for him next to them, so Zendaya points at a seat behind her (in *gasp* second row) and he seems blindsided lol. I looked him up and saw that he does make every effort to be on the red carpet with her (look at how he built a side character for her Met Gala number so he could tag along ). That LV interaction is this guy's problem in a nutshell: he thinks being behind the scenes or somewhere 'behind' a star is beneath him, and he's naive enough to think being invited at some show in Miami of all places, is the start of a career in the limelight..

Anyway, I'm still surprised that people in the industry can be such lapdogs, styledotcom being like 'HE IS BACK'.. yeah because he left.. yesterday?

You encouraged me to find it but I don't have time to look for the original, this remake is so funny.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/fAdEPxVwI_o

 

[style_expert]

You encouraged me to find it but I don't have time to look for the original, this remake is so funny.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/fAdEPxVwI_o

Is this real? Very painful and embarrassing for both Zendaya and Law and also a situation that could have easily been avoided by better communication beforehand. I guess Law is always expecting a front row seat?
Depending on the seat charts/layout it's not uncommon for important editors of Vogue and other publications to sit second row (of course not Anna). Especially if a front row is mostly occupied by 'celebrities'.
I must say the vaguely amused look on Delphine Arnaults face does not make her seem very sympathetic, especially in her role as CEO.

Number one rule for celebrity stylists is never try to place yourself on the same level as your client.
Yes, hierarchy and all that, if you can't deal with it, find another way to become famous if that's what you're after.
I kind of feel sorry for Zendaya. I think any other gifted stylist could have achieved the same fashion status for her (if not more), without feeling the constant desire to escort/guide her. I don't think she needs that at all.

It's so interesting that the best editorial stylists are so low-key generally. Joe McKenna, Olivier Rizzo, Marie Chaix, Karl Templer, I know what they look like but they're always very much in the background. Let your work speak for you is a mantra I can admire. Probably a generational thing too.

 

[Drusilla_]

This is something I keep seeing around social media and ??. Zendaya is undeniably talented and has one of the most promising careers in Hollywood. She's won Golden Globes and Emmys, her incredibly corny, ill-fitted style and the PR to push her as some 'fashion force' is very recent and would make no difference on her popularity since she basically carries one of the most popular shows in the past decade all by herself and has the type of personality that embodies the zeitgeist so to speak.

I'm not even a fan but do find the 'he made her!' sexist.

I agree it's sexist to boil her entire career and achievements down to what some guy puts her in on the red carpet considering the massive impact she's had as an actress in actual film and tv projects. But, as @Lola701 pointed out, LR was the one who helped elevate her image from "teenage Disney star" to "bona fide candidate for critically acclaimed projects, $200 million movies and young Hollywood A-list" and surely we of all places can't deny the role fashion plays in that.

It's her talent that made her a legitimate star in her own right and not just "someone who looks good on red carpets" - but showbiz needs more than that and showing up everywhere in a really good look in her later teens/early 20s played a huge role in getting her the initial exposure that got both the general fashion industry and the movie industry to notice her as something other than some cheesy Disney tween (and Disney Channel people by default are considered cheesy), something that Zendaya has admitted herself. He thought creatively to get there, too - borrowing clothes that others had worn before so she'd at least get her pictures in "Who wore it better?" pages. That was smart, and he's been styling her since she was 13 or 14 - she's now 26 - which is a LONG working association, and a very successful one.

I saw the video where Zendaya arrives late at LV and finds her seat next to Emma Stone (where she belongs!) and this guy is trailing behind and looks genuinely baffled that there is no front row seat for him next to them, so Zendaya points at a seat behind her (in *gasp* second row) and he seems blindsided lol. I looked him up and saw that he does make every effort to be on the red carpet with her (look at how he built a side character for her Met Gala number so he could tag along ). That LV interaction is this guy's problem in a nutshell: he thinks being behind the scenes or somewhere 'behind' a star is beneath him, and he's naive enough to think being invited at some show in Miami of all places, is the start of a career in the limelight..

Apparently he was in fact seated front row in another section once the show started, but I'm surprised he expected to be seated with her, I very much doubt a brand like LV gives out invites without specific seating assignment already marked and if they do that's incredibly sloppy of them. But the seating was a continuous bench, I suppose he might've thought he could squeeze in but of course Zendaya was expected to sit with the other celebs representing the actual brand, that's what gets press.

@style_expert, I agree it's very embarrassing for them both - people were being ridiculous and blaming Zendaya as if she has control over what seating Louis Vuitton gives her 'team' (and he did get a front row seat, just not with her). And in general, editorial stylists past a certain level e.g. the Marie Chaix and Manuela Pavesi/I guess Lotta Volkova nowadays level - because we know how the lower rungs are treated - do seem to be much more respected as image makers than celebrity stylists, probably because they're seen as serving 'fashion first' vs 'celebrity first'.

 

[lucy92]

Law Roach didn't look bad on the Boss runway, especially compared to other celebrities that were walking. i'd like to see him without that facial hair.

I've only seen one spat over seating at a NYFW show myself. I witnessed actress Nichole Galicia have a meltdown over her own seating and an apparent flunky at a Nicole Miller show in 2019. She wanted the flunky to record the show and have an unencumbered view.

I hadn't heard of her at the time until I saw her tagged in a Getty image of the show. At the time she had a few small roles mostly uncredited or walk-on - but now she's on "Mayor of Kingstown".

 

[MulletProof]

I must say the vaguely amused look on Delphine Arnaults face does not make her seem very sympathetic, especially in her role as CEO.

I would dream of Delphine's smirk FOR DAYS if that was me .. she does look like she's in that group of humans that have an inexplicable and permanent smirk on their faces, probably some loose muscle [lol] and not really laughing at you but still. I would've defected too but not to appear on a catwalk the next day, I would be living in a Mongolian yurt right now.

 

[gunsnroses]

You encouraged me to find it but I don't have time to look for the original, this remake is so funny.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/fAdEPxVwI_o

There’s a new video that shows the interaction from his POV and everyone looks so uncomfortable

 

[Lola701]

There’s a new video that shows the interaction from his POV and everyone looks so uncomfortable

But I’m surprised he was surprised (and made everybody look uncomfortable) because none of those actresses are seated next to their stylist. And some stylists dresses many Nicolas’s friends/ambassadors.

Tbh he missed on something by not being behind Zendaya. He would have been seated next to Gilles Dufour aka the number 2 at Chanel & Fendi under Karl until 1997.

If Gilles Dufour can seat on the second row, given that all his nieces and friends of his nieces got in the fashion industry and in very big positions because of him, everybody can.

 

[plentyofhorns]

And Celine.

the celine bus ads in NYC are crazy. also they could replace this Isabel Marant ad with “end world hunger” and no one would notice

 

[LadyJunon]

the celine bus ads in NYC are crazy. also they could replace this Isabel Marant ad with “end world hunger” and no one would notice

View attachment 1228307

I did not prepare for this shade today!

 

[LostInNJ]

But I’m surprised he was surprised (and made everybody look uncomfortable) because none of those actresses are seated next to their stylist. And some stylists dresses many Nicolas’s friends/ambassadors.

Tbh he missed on something by not being behind Zendaya. He would have been seated next to Gilles Dufour aka the number 2 at Chanel & Fendi under Karl until 1997.

If Gilles Dufour can seat on the second row, given that all his nieces and friends of his nieces got in the fashion industry and in very big positions because of him, everybody can.

There is a NYMag article in which he sits down to go over everything, and I must say he does raise a lot of interesting and valid points about working in the industry (celebrity styling world).

In regards to this situation, it is explained and makes sense. Doesn't seem like trying to save face either.

I am guilty of this, where my perception of someone taints a lot of what they do, and fair enough, with the way he handles certain things I think my perception (and many people's perception of the situation was plausible), but the truth is a lot less interesting and juicy.

 

[Lola701]

There is a NYMag article in which he sits down to go over everything, and I must say he does raise a lot of interesting and valid points about working in the industry (celebrity styling world).

In regards to this situation, it is explained and makes sense. Doesn't seem like trying to save face either.

I am guilty of this, where my perception of someone taints a lot of what they do, and fair enough, with the way he handles certain things I think my perception (and many people's perception of the situation was plausible), but the truth is a lot less interesting and juicy.

Yes I saw the interview. A Mea Culpa is indeed needed.
Having left the industry I can understand some of the frustration…
That being said, the biggest take away from his « I’m leaving styling celebrities » is that he is also ready to embrace the fact that he is a celebrity.
As I said earlier, with that comes expectations. It’s maybe for the better for him to leave it now…

But I don’t think he will leave Zendaya. He would be a fool to do so. She is only a rising star…

 

[LostInNJ]

Yes I saw the interview. A Mea Culpa is indeed needed.
Having left the industry I can understand some of the frustration…
That being said, the biggest take away from his « I’m leaving styling celebrities » is that he is also ready to embrace the fact that he is a celebrity.
As I said earlier, with that comes expectations. It’s maybe for the better for him to leave it now…

But I don’t think he will leave Zendaya. He would be a fool to do so. She is only a rising star…

Agreed. He acknowledged the fact that he wants to show "the real him" and his personality so maybe hosting gigs and speaking engagements are in his future. I do think it is a bit of both, however, the treatment within the industry plus wanting to elevate his own platform and not just that of his clients.

 

[SophiaVB]

Didn't bother saving them but there were a lot of blind item write-ins on DeuxMoi from assistants and brand PRs saying that he is an absolute nightmare to work with and does not pay.