Model Behavior (PLEASE READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING)

[Lax89]

I don't think anyone should have appologized neither for the pic above, nor for the Geisha editorial. Geez! It's just a fashion editorial! People are being way too sensetive and taking things way too seriously on those matters.

Exactly ! It's not like it was an ed aiming at mocking the Geisha culture. I've read some comments online in which people said they could have given the ed to an Asian model and someone else said "but not every Asian is japanese"
This is so irritating. It's a fashion editorial showcasing a Japanese tradition. I'm pretty sure there's been plenty of editorials with a Geisha theme

If people get mad at this, should we also get mad at non-German people wearing the traditional lederhosen ? I don't think so, then let's not assume everything is cultural appropriation or mocking a culture.

 

[kokobombon]

^I think that the issue is born out of that these cultures (asian, indian, african) are historically minorities that had and still don´t have enough representation and still get discriminated. White people dressing in white people traditional clothes is not an issue because white people don´t share their history of systemic discrimination.
I think it´s a fine line to walk though, when is something an homage and when is cultural appropiation?

 

[pollyanna90]

^I think that the issue is born out of that these cultures (asian, indian, african) are historically minorities that had and still don´t have enough representation and still get discriminated. White people dressing in white people traditional clothes is not an issue because white people don´t share their history of systemic discrimination.
I think it´s a fine line to walk though, when is something an homage and when is cultural appropiation?

Exactly. This would have been a wonderful opportunity for them to give Chiharu or Tao that editorial.

 

[Lax89]

^I think that the issue is born out of that these cultures (asian, indian, african) are historically minorities that had and still don´t have enough representation and still get discriminated. White people dressing in white people traditional clothes is not an issue because white people don´t share their history of systemic discrimination.
I think it´s a fine line to walk though, when is something an homage and when is cultural appropiation?

Don't tell me only white people wear the lederhosen. I'm pretty sure tourists from all around the world wear it during Oktoberfest ... Anyway I'm not even German but my point is everyone (the PC police) always assumes it's cultural appropriation and not an hommage. To me the fine line between that doesn't exist because people always get mad and scream racism

 

[fashionista-ta]

I think the fact that people wearing lederhosen look really silly should be factored in. It takes everything I've got to keep a straight face during Oktoberfest ...

 

[kokobombon]

Don't tell me only white people wear the lederhosen. I'm pretty sure tourists from all around the world wear it during Oktoberfest ... Anyway I'm not even German but my point is everyone (the PC police) always assumes it's cultural appropriation and not an hommage. To me the fine line between that doesn't exist because people always get mad and scream racism

No, I didn´t mean it that way but that as white people are not a minority discriminated against, wearing clothes/traditional outfits can´t be considered cultural appropriation (can it?). Historically and by definition, there´s no racism against white people.

 

[eizhowa]

No, I didn´t mean it that way but that as white people are not a minority discriminated against, wearing clothes/traditional outfits can´t be considered cultural appropriation (can it?). Historically and by definition, there´s no racism against white people.

There is racism against white people in South-Africa today (where they are a minority).

But I do get your point of germans not being a victim of racism.

 

[Deleted member 130879]

The only case I can think of white people being discriminated/victims of racism is if you consider Roma people Caucasian (which I don't, since their historical origins come from India). And I would say Roma are the most discriminated group in Europe nowadays, just check youtube and you will see Roma kids getting beat, spitted on, and sometimes even worse in the middle of the street during day light. And I can think of plenty of editorials with gypsy/Roma themes and no one seems to care.

 

[fashionista-ta]

There is racism against white people in South-Africa today (where they are a minority).

But I do get your point of germans not being a victim of racism.

I don't really know what's going on in South Africa today that you're referencing, but just a few short years since they were the oppressors. South African divestment was a big deal when I was in college.

Roma people were also a major target of the Nazis.

 

[Lax89]

I think the fact that people wearing lederhosen look really silly should be factored in. It takes everything I've got to keep a straight face during Oktoberfest ...

If you said that about Geishas, I'm sure everyone would jump on you ...

No, I didn´t mean it that way but that as white people are not a minority discriminated against, wearing clothes/traditional outfits can´t be considered cultural appropriation (can it?). Historically and by definition, there´s no racism against white people.

Maybe it's not if we base that assumption on the definition of racism but the lederhosen is still part of a culture/tradition, whether you agree or not.

There is racism against white people in South-Africa today (where they are a minority).

But I do get your point of germans not being a victim of racism.

When my (Portuguese) mom emigrated to France in the 60's she was the target of mockeries (by other kids and even teachers). So white people can be discriminated against because they are deemed inferior to other white people. But I digress

I think this editorial is not cultural appropriation, you think it is. Life goes on

 

[Benn98]

There is racism against white people in South-Africa today (where they are a minority).

But I do get your point of germans not being a victim of racism.

I have been to South Africa at least 6 of their summers over the past 10 years and I cannot say this is true at all. Based on what I've seen casually I'd probably say there's still much covert racism against black people over there. Because guess what, the wealth still seems concentrated within the hands of whites, which presuposes racism. Minority vs majority have nothing to do with it. If that is the case why were black people oppressed in a country where they outnumbered whites?

 

[billiejbob]

I have been to South Africa at least 6 of their summers over the past 10 years and I cannot say this is true at all. Based on what I've seen casually I'd probably say there's still much covert racism against black people over there. Because guess what, the wealth still seems concentrated within the hands of whites, which presuposes racism. Minority vs majority have nothing to do with it. If that is the case why were black people oppressed in a country where they outnumbered whites?

Racism in South Africa is a tricky one. I've been to SA many times to all different places like liberal areas such as Cape Town and PE to pretty Afrikaans areas like Kuruman and Kroonstad which are pretty racist. It varies all over the country from on extreme to the other.

A better example of racism against whites is Zimbabwe, especially when farming property was systematically taken from white families and they were driven off their land for absolutely ridiculous reasons.

 

[Benn98]

The writer was of course a douche, but was it really neccesary for Emily to run to social media to call him out? Why not address it right there and then? Perfect example of a keyboard warrior!

http://http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/columnists/diane-bell/sd-me-bell-20170216-story.html

 

[vanpersie]

Rasicm is SA goes definitly both way's. There are many hatecrimes against the whites, especially against white farmers. There are also the so called coconuts who don't want to live with white people (SA rainbownation) in what they say is "their" country.
Yes the whites have better positions and are the wealthy ones, I can imagine that it pisses black people off. But without them Zuma will have a Zimbabwe disaster and he knows it.

It depends on where you are and who you talk to. A tourist might not notice it, but it's definitly there. Both way's. It's a tricky one.

 

[Benn98]

Back to the issue at hand, I acknowledge that the edit may seem insensitive to many, but like I said in the US Vogue thread - the problem starts with Phyllis Posnick (the editor). She's the one who conceived this story, who cast Karlie, so why not press her for questions? For her creative justification? These problems will never go away because those screaming and shouting never seem prepared to listen to any form of reason (however flawed it may be). They just want to pile on the softest target, and force an apology out of them. Fruitless, I say.

 

[Cute]

Not sure if this belongs here or in the insiders thread (not really sure who the guy is tbh), but I just think it's funny how Ondria interjected
(click the image to view the comments)

 

[jena92]

Well noone knows who is in charge of the editorial and the casting and noone cares. They see Karlie who has millions of followers and she is kind of connected with Trump and they hate her. If it was another model that is not famous then propably it will not be that big of an issue and even if it was everyone would hate Vogue and not the model.

 

[Deleted member 130879]

Ondria's comment is gone now.

As for Emily... Give me a f* break. The girl from «Blurred Lines» is getting offended with misogyny? Or is it ok just when she's getting paid for it? Calling anyone a h***r is bad but no one would know anything if she didn't post it. I smell someone is trying to get in the president's good graces. The girl that got offended because kids were giving away peanut butter sandwiches. I can't even begin to express the amount of facepalms this girl provokes in me.

 

[fashionista-ta]

If you said that about Geishas, I'm sure everyone would jump on you ...



Maybe it's not if we base that assumption on the definition of racism but the lederhosen is still part of a culture/tradition, whether you agree or not.



When my (Portuguese) mom emigrated to France in the 60's she was the target of mockeries (by other kids and even teachers). So white people can be discriminated against because they are deemed inferior to other white people. But I digress

I think this editorial is not cultural appropriation, you think it is. Life goes on

Geishas don't look silly, they're graceful. I think the problem with lederhosen is they look like something for a 4yo to wear. It's just a good thing I'm not a beer drinker, or I'd end up laughing and pointing

 

[billiejbob]

Maybe it's just me but I feel with Karlie's geisha inspired spread they almost styled her to look Japanese and that's where the controversy is coming from.

If you look at Patrick Demarchelier's 2008 Pirelli Calendar which was geisha-inspired, none of the models who aren't of Japanese or East Asian decent are styled in any way to make them look East Asian. And there was definitely no controversy with their shoot.