Model Behavior (PLEASE READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING)

[eizhowa]

^I want to make a comment about that incident, but I can't do it without sounding mean. I have tried to formulate a non-rude comment 3-4 times now. It cannot be done!

Edit: Not rude towards you, billiejbob, rude to the people calling for having her fired. Just to be clear

 

[eizhowa]

Okay, I can't help myself. I am guessing that if a black person wrote the lyrics, thats okay, but what if he had a white co-writer? Can we get the white man fired for being culpable in making these other white people sing the N-word? Where does this social-media-justice system draw the line?

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ I agree, this is a bit ridiculous. There is, btw, a fairly major disagreement in the black community that seems to occur along generational lines, about whether the n-word should be used in lyrics, conversation, etc. However, it was used. Are the models expected to sing 'bleep' instead? I would not be singing along, but hey, that's me.

In what appears to be another example of taking a good concept too far, Minnesota Public Radio has gone after Garrison Keillor for what is apparently a single complaint that he seems to have a reasonable explanation for. He's retired already, but still has an active contract (did), and they have said they will change the name of the show he hosted for decades so as to obliterate his legacy.

There are so many good things to get upset about right now we're spoiled for choice, and then there are a few we can let ride ...

 

[Benn98]

At this stage I wish the word could just be forever retired, and not used by anybody. It's clearly very sensitive to many, but my contention is when you're going to put out a pop record, accessible to people of all races, how can you expect them to bleep certain words? Show me the disclaimer on Cardi B's record which state a certain group cannot sing the song aloud. Not that I'd expect Cardi B to have thought that far anyway....

 

[Benn98]

Elle Denmark is promising an 'honest' interview with Ulrikke Hoyer and the debacle with Ashley Brokaw a while back.

 

[Benn98]

what a nice gesture!

I know, but anyone else found the guy just about leaning in the car a bit creepy? That expression on his face...... I mean, I doubt he'll post the pic on Insta or FB.....it'll be used to satisfy other more, ahem, masculine needs, I'm sure.

 

[xoxoadore]

Okay, I can't help myself. I am guessing that if a black person wrote the lyrics, thats okay, but what if he had a white co-writer? Can we get the white man fired for being culpable in making these other white people sing the N-word? Where does this social-media-justice system draw the line?

ehhh its very different if its a white co-writer, he is not the SINGER so idk man. In my honest opinion, if you aren't black, you really have no say or weight in the matter because to us it may see as an overkill but who are we to judge other peoples realities and experiences? If its a controversy its better just to not say it and be done with it. I really don't think this should be a hard concept to grasp.

 

[eizhowa]

ehhh its very different if its a white co-writer, he is not the SINGER so idk man. In my honest opinion, if you aren't black, you really have no say or weight in the matter because to us it may see as an overkill but who are we to judge other peoples realities and experiences? If its a controversy its better just to not say it and be done with it. I really don't think this should be a hard concept to grasp.

The fact that the white writer is not the singer is not relevant, seeing as it is the white fans who are singing the word and the writers culpability which is the issue. When you co-write a lyric, you are intenting for it to be sung by the artist and fans, which should make the white singer culpable, at least from a moral standpoint. Assuming there is any logic behind moral rules.

My main issue is that I don't like the idea that moral rules without any legal basis (singing the N-word is not illegal) should have so much power. It would be much better to change the law, instead of arbitrarily attacking people.

But as fashionista-ta pointed out, people don't agree on the topic, so we are stuck with this arbitrariness.

 

[fashionista-ta]

We have a law already, it's called free speech It's very strong in this country, for better or worse. There's always going to be nuance, social acceptability around speech. But with so many things to be outraged about right now, this seems like a poor choice to me.

 

[Littleathquakes]

I'm over it. Like it's a nasty word, but honestly, if black people want it stopped, they should stop using it, too. Both in regular everyday speak and in songs. I personally wouldn't be repeating the word even if it was in the lyrics, but it's not something that rings in my ear and causes me to stop doing what I'm doing if a non-black person sang it.

 

[fashionista-ta]

The other perspective is that hateful people aren't going to stop using the word, so some black people like to use it and take the sting out of it. I can understand that.

This goes back quite a while ... I remember girls in the dorm yelling it at each other in the hall in a friendly way, and then looking like 'Oh, she wasn't supposed to hear that' when I came around the corner And that was more than 30 years ago

 

[Benn98]

This goes back quite a while ... I remember girls in the dorm yelling it at each other in the hall in a friendly way, and then looking like 'Oh, she wasn't supposed to hear that' when I came around the corner And that was more than 30 years ago

Sorry, just pictured this and while it's no laughing matter, I find it absolutely hilarious. I expect the same would've happened if a black model walked in on the VS girls rapping that song *Cringe*

 

[Littleathquakes]

The other perspective is that hateful people aren't going to stop using the word, so some black people like to use it and take the sting out of it. I can understand that.

I can understand it too. But the thing is...you can't use it and then get mad when someone else (non black, non hateful) use it, too. Its non-use is to fight the hate so that when hateful people use it, it shows who they are. Now using it in everyday speech to "neutralize" and take the hate out of it, while a noble attempt, doesn't work in the end. It becomes hypocrisy when black people use it in open dialogue with each other, as well as with non-blacks, but expect other parties to not be able to use it in response as common dialogue, not as hate speech. That is where this model fails. That is why these models think they can sing those lyrics because their intention is not hateful, but the reception of them singing those lyrics is a mixed bag depending on who you ask. The word simply needs to be archived from vernacular.

 

[Les_Sucettes]

I see absolutely no conflict between black people being able to take possession of the word and use it the way they please and white people being “barred” from using it.

What I find absolutely and totally ridiculous is being called “racist” because you are singing a song by a black artist. The word is not illegal, black artists, like all artists, expect to reach all sorts of people, if they think it’s right for people to use the word in the context of the song it’s their decision, if people have an issue with it, the onus should be on the artist that is singing the song( who wrote it is immaterial) not the fan.

 

[xoxoadore]

wow but is it really THAT hard for y'all to not sing ONE WORD in a song? seriously? does it stop you from liking the song? that's all they ask you can sing the song but just don't say ONE word as easy as that tbh

 

[eizhowa]

wow but is it really THAT hard for y'all to not sing ONE WORD in a song? seriously? does it stop you from liking the song? that's all they ask you can sing the song but just don't say ONE word as easy as that tbh

Is is that hard for writers to just not use that word? 1 writer, 1 000 000 singers of the written song. Sounds like one solution is easier than the other, doesn't it?

Also, the human brain is not perfect. I know that I forget which words to not say in songs, on occasion. In my country, we have childrens games where the point is to sing a song, but skip one word per round. I remember people failing at that, and that was when they were concentrating...

 

[xoxoadore]

The fact that the white writer is not the singer is not relevant, seeing as it is the white fans who are singing the word and the writers culpability which is the issue. When you co-write a lyric, you are intenting for it to be sung by the artist and fans, which should make the white singer culpable, at least from a moral standpoint. Assuming there is any logic behind moral rules.

My main issue is that I don't like the idea that moral rules without any legal basis (singing the N-word is not illegal) should have so much power. It would be much better to change the law, instead of arbitrarily attacking people.

But as fashionista-ta pointed out, people don't agree on the topic, so we are stuck with this arbitrariness.

Is is that hard for writers to just not use that word? 1 writer, 1 000 000 singers of the written song. Sounds like one solution is easier than the other, doesn't it?

Also, the human brain is not perfect. I know that I forget which words to not say in songs, on occasion. In my country, we have childrens games where the point is to sing a song, but skip one word per round. I remember people failing at that, and that was when they were concentrating...

if its a black singer yes he can sing and use it in his lyrics his white fans have to just stop themselves from using it like ....its not all of his public! obviously, his black fans who go through the same experiences and hardships as the rapper can say it. ok i'll stop here but come one, it's a bit silly tell BLACK artist to stop singing and using their own lexicon but its too hard to make white fans not sing one word lol The angels and models are public figures not children playing a game

 

[tatouejeremie]

Is is that hard for writers to just not use that word? 1 writer, 1 000 000 singers of the written song. Sounds like one solution is easier than the other, doesn't it?

Also, the human brain is not perfect. I know that I forget which words to not say in songs, on occasion. In my country, we have childrens games where the point is to sing a song, but skip one word per round. I remember people failing at that, and that was when they were concentrating...

** Edited **

i think black people can decide how they want this word to be handled, ***Edited***

 

[eizhowa]

I simply meant that in reality it will be hard to completely stop such a large number of people of doing something, and that is partly because humans make mistakes all the time. When a singer uses a word, some will interpret that as consent to use it, some will not realize it is an issue at all, and some will make simple mistakes.

But everyone is perfectly free to ignore my opinion. I have never said you couldn't. * shrugs *

 

[Benn98]

** Edited **

i think black people can decide how they want this word to be handled, ***Edited***

I think we can keep this discussion civil without hurling insults. She's merely stating her point in a very rational way.

The policing of this word only seems to come up with hip hop songs, so I tend to agree with her here. Either bar the word entirely, or just allow everyone to sing along at free will. Those girl rapped along with no malice intended. Besides, I've never heard any artist proclaim X can sing along, but not Y. It's so unnecessary separatist.

You do understand that half of the demographic consuming hip hop are now non-black.