Vogue Paris December 2010/January 2011 : Daphne Groeneveld & Tom Ford by Mert Alas & Marcus Piggott

[Pedro]

I'm sorry to disagree with you guys but don't forget that photographers like Richard Avedon, Helmut Newton, David Bailey, Guy Bourdin and a few others produced renowned art pieces while producing fashion editorials for Vogue and Harper's Bazaar. Why is that the new generation of photographers can't do the same? because in the past there were extraordinary and dedicated art directors and magazine editors who loved passionately their job.

 

[Alien Sex Friend]

^i guess, that`s not the only one reaon, that`s because there`s more money now in fashion and the rules of the game turned more stricter, and, please, do not forget: fashion photography it is `exhaustible resource` thats hard to say something new and its very commercial, so who pays the piper calls the tune. i cant recall anything new since i can`t recall then last time^ everything is just reference on reference.

 

[Pedro]

Yes these days media must be competitive and profitable, but even under budget restrictions, advertising commitments and multitasking careers it's still possible to do great things, with a motivated and talented team.

 

[KKnardi]

apart from 'fashion being a business' and everything, I would argue that photographs can be made artfully and with taste, showing glamour and elegance in a new way. the absense of any of this in this issue makes this issue a tasteless waste of money(on both sides of course)

 

[markese91]

^fashion is not art it is business (anyone who works here can confirm that), i am really sorry to say that and sorry if that offent you, but it is quite strange actually if it does

... I really can't address you. You're sadly mistaken if you think Haute Couture is a business... it's really not. It is in fact an art.

 

[MON]

What a disappointing guess-edit issue. I thought that it was gonna be as great as the Dre-John Galliano issue, but it wasn't. I hope VP rises to the occasion next month

 

[testinofan]

Avedon, Penn, Newton are other era, is the time of yours works no are the crazy fashion worls to sale, have less mags now the most important is sale, And Newton say you pic ni are Art he i hate the people say the fashion photos are Art because not,
Me like the people say one mag have 50% of Art and the people buy this mag please no say Vogue Italia about Meisel is a photographer not Artist

 

[Deleted member 116957]

You're so dedicated to hating on Meisel. It's hilarious.

 

[agee]

^i guess, that`s not the only one reaon, that`s because there`s more money now in fashion and the rules of the game turned more stricter, and, please, do not forget: fashion photography it is `exhaustible resource` thats hard to say something new and its very commercial, so who pays the piper calls the tune. i cant recall anything new since i can`t recall then last time^ everything is just reference on reference.

Actually I think there is less money in fashion, at least on the publishing side, an example of this is that editors and photographers do not have the budget for location shoots like they used to. Also there are more and quicker means to getting fashion content, so fashion magazines are not the only game in town. But I definitely agree with the overall point that fashion is a business, however fashion and art are not mutually exclusive (not that you made such a claim). I think that the commerce over art argument can be made about the content that we see in U.S. and British Vogue, but when it comes to French and Italian Vogue, while the business aspect is not totally negated especially in recent times, I think that they are given more creative latitude and still come up short for other reasons.

... I really can't address you. You're sadly mistaken if you think Haute Couture is a business... it's really not. It is in fact an art.

As I previously stated, art and commerce are not mutually exclusive, but as long as companies like LVMH are part of the equation, business will be at the forefront. Yes art can be created even if driven by corporate mandates, but I don't know if that can be relied upon to satisfy those who want to see more artistry in fashion design or photography. Furthermore, if couture is an art, clearly art is not something that designers are aiming for as houses like Lanvin, Balmain, Nina Ricci, Yves Saint Laurent and Pucci no longer produce couture collections.

 

[BerlinRocks]

fashion is definetely a business, as is art !
and both vehicles in the same world.
fashion, art ... this is all the same.

photographing isn`t an art, and, i suppose, that`s only here he is taking pictures for magazines.

Read more: Vogue Paris Dec 2010/Jan 2011 : Daphne Groeneveld & Tom Ford by Mert & Marcus - Page 35 - the Fashion Spot http://forums.thefashionspot.com/f7...ford-mert-marcus-116493-35.html#ixzz172nufLCN

photographing is an art. it's admitted for about at least 60-70 yrs.
and since the 1980s-1990s, fashion photography has entered the art market. a portrait of Kate Moss by Lindbergh can retail for something like 30 000 E, pictures of I&V can retail to 125 000 E, a Bansky Kate Moss Andy Warholish portrait for about 100 000 E, and if a publishing House (like Taschen) can produce a huge coffee-table-book (like Sumo) it means, fashion photography is defintely becoming the little bourgeois thing everybody can afford and has to have.
fashion photography has entered the museums, i mean ! damn it !

so eventhough people want to still believe art is the baudelaire romantic thing (so that art is different from fashion coz fashion is all about business), let me tell you that TODAY art and fashion are to me the same business.

but knowing this; the only thing that count in the end, to me, is what you put on-in-to it. both request you to be a little "sensitive".

* thanks ASF for pointing that before the calendars were as well sponsored. i had forgotten. this is probably because Mikael Jansson in beige with Daria is definitely not my glass of vodka ... and i have to find something else to hate it. i let some straight men judge, probably - what this calendar is worth. after all this is for them (coz that one cannot be judge on its artistic side ...) ...

 

[cottonmouth13]

You're so dedicated to hating on Meisel. It's hilarious.

Exactly.

 

[Les_Sucettes]

Well I work in the art world, And Yes fashion photography can be art, it doesn't mean all fashion photography is art but sincerely i do not see any difference between a fashion photographer, an artist that works with photography, or an artist that works in other medium. In the right context they are all artists and they work will be sold by me as such.

No magazine is ever going to please everyone, i like VP's vision that's why i buy it regardless of the specific contents of each month. Just the fact that 90% of the contents would never be published in a mag like Vogue US can only be a positive thing.

 

[wmaw]

love the ed with Crystal Renn, Abbey Lee, Eniko Mihalik

 

[markese91]

We should probably take this discussion elsewhere although I'd love to continue it.

 

[Tacita]

I think some fashion photography can be art, but not all of it.
But, whether it's art or not, it is still an expression, so you can like it or hate it, simple.
This issue is really disappointing to me, but I can see why would someone like it...it's subjective.-

 

[testinofan]

NoNo me no hate Meisel is my second favorite photographer i love your works, but some persons love and say all works or Meisel are Art and i think not is my opinion , me say example to Meisel about imagine the people say him are the unique photographer take art bla bla , but no i hate, only say all works of him no are AMAZINGGG like some member say only this blueorchid, cottonmouth13 please no put word me no say

 

[jeremydante]

Actually I think there is less money in fashion, at least on the publishing side, an example of this is that editors and photographers do not have the budget for location shoots like they used to. Also there are more and quicker means to getting fashion content, so fashion magazines are not the only game in town. But I definitely agree with the overall point that fashion is a business, however fashion and art are not mutually exclusive (not that you made such a claim). I think that the commerce over art argument can be made about the content that we see in U.S. and British Vogue, but when it comes to French and Italian Vogue, while the business aspect is not totally negated especially in recent times, I think that they are given more creative latitude and still come up short for other reasons.


As I previously stated, art and commerce are not mutually exclusive, but as long as companies like LVMH are part of the equation, business will be at the forefront. Yes art can be created even if driven by corporate mandates, but I don't know if that can be relied upon to satisfy those who want to see more artistry in fashion design or photography. Furthermore, if couture is an art, clearly art is not something that designers are aiming for as houses like Lanvin, Balmain, Nina Ricci, Yves Saint Laurent and Pucci no longer produce couture collections.

served on a silver platter!
love what you had to say, i value what you've said here.

 

[Deleted member 116957]

NoNo me no hate Meisel is my second favorite photographer i love your works, but some persons love and say all works or Meisel are Art and i think not is my opinion , me say example to Meisel about imagine the people say him are the unique photographer take art bla bla , but no i hate, only say all works of him no are AMAZINGGG like some member say only this blueorchid, cottonmouth13 please no put word me no say

Oh. I just get that impression from you because in 90% of the posts I've seen you make about him you're always complaining about something. Calling him and his work stupid and discussing how awful he is. If you like him, you disguise it well.

 

[Northern Star]

Eventually managed to go through the whole thread and see everything and what a massive disappointment after all the bloody hype.
This had to be one of the most anticipated editions of a major fashion mag lately, and it certainly hasn't lived up to anything at all. Apparently first glimpses of Tom Ford's big womenswear comeback, and then trumped by Vogue US, who showed the pics first and then royally trumped by Harpers Bazaar UK, who showed much better pics.
The makeover edit is scary and Crystal looks like Janice Dickinson on a good day, and all the Ford stuff is bitterly disappointing too. The saving grace here is '***** West', superb work from Terry, great casting and just the right amount of OTT, kitschy glamour.

 

[testinofan]

Oh. I just get that impression from you because in 90% of the posts I've seen you make about him you're always complaining about something. Calling him and his work stupid and discussing how awful he is. If you like him, you disguise it well.

hahaha to the person buy mags of 1994 love Meisel me think have amazing works in the 90' now repetitive to much and copy to much but i like him i hate the members say all of him are fantastic about me say much things of Testino are bad, sure im my opinion, but im free to say awful and i dont like work of him,any about have critic and expecting more of the photographers anyway dont like change opinion with people say thing me no say , to say me talk bad of Meisel in the 90% you folowme to much ,kisses respect my opinion and no say things me no say