Jil Sander S/S 10 Milan

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no audio

 

[tricotineacetat]

I really wonder how many people on fashion spot praising this collection find themselves in the situation to be actual customers of Jil Sander, or even, finding themselves with similar needs regarding the clothes they need to wear as the woman that Jil herself used to dress. A lot of designers have done frayed edges this season and I am clearly seeing very little wear for that in office situations, for which successful working women (let's face it that the pricepoint allow for such an assumption) have for many years turned to Jil Sander.

 

[dior_couture1245]

^^So annoying...they just removed the audio because just yesterday there was still music playing in the video...and the music was so beautiful!

I hate youtube.

 

[notmanons]

^ I don't hate YouTube, I hate the WMG. They are so ridiculous about their music laws...no matter what people will still always find new ways to steal music, there's really nothing you can do.

 

[softgrey]

this f-ing SUCKS!

so glad jil is coming back and making REAL clothes again!

the only cool part is the accessories which look like they belong at a completely different house...

has anything BUT the accessories even been selling from the brand?
i haven't bought a thing from them in YEARS...
haven't even been remotely tempted...

 

[tricotineacetat]

this f-ing SUCKS!

so glad jil is coming back and making REAL clothes again!

the only cool part is the accessories which look like they belong at a completely different house...

has anything BUT the accessories even been selling from the brand?
i haven't bought a thing from them in YEARS...
haven't even been remotely tempted...

That makes me think of when you bought this beautiful off-white cotton dress from Jil's comeback collection several years ago, softie

Do you still get to wear it every once in a while?

 

[Deleted member 7575]

I really wonder how many people on fashion spot praising this collection find themselves in the situation to be actual customers of Jil Sander, or even, finding themselves with similar needs regarding the clothes they need to wear as the woman that Jil herself used to dress. A lot of designers have done frayed edges this season and I am clearly seeing very little wear for that in office situations, for which successful working women (let's face it that the pricepoint allow for such an assumption) have for many years turned to Jil Sander.

That's the thing, my major complaint about what Raf is doing is that it's not Sander, rather, it feels like Raf Simons doing Helmut Lang for Jil Sander. This collection, with the raw frayed edges, in this economy? REALLY?? Unless he thought a raw frayed edge was seriously a long term design element that will become a part of our everyday dress vocabulary as far as office clothing and suiting goes..... which I am sure he doesn't. Sander would never use such an obvious trendy gimmick in her clothes, not for the prices she sells them at.

There certainly are beautiful ideas in this collection but they were done with too much liberty and not enough believability for a practical discerning woman who is soooooo over gimmicks and just wants a nice jacket, pant, or dress.

 

[softgrey]

That makes me think of when you bought this beautiful off-white cotton dress from Jil's comeback collection several years ago, softie

Do you still get to wear it every once in a while?

awwww...
SO sweet that you remember that...

what you remember is the pic from the runway that i posted...
but i actually bought it in black, which was not on the runway...

and yes-
it is still a fave piece in my wardrobe...
it's absolutely perfect and timeless...classic jil...not like this nonsense...
...

 

[D'Felipe]

The shoes remind me of high school desks

 

[BerlinRocks]

the comments from p.12-13 are best comments i've read so far from the FW collections.
really interesting. and so happy to always learn some stuff and new perspectives or just ways to look at the clothes.

so thank you all (Pastry, Scott, Gius, WIW etc.) for these comments.

 

[wheneveriwakeup]

I really wonder how many people on fashion spot praising this collection find themselves in the situation to be actual customers of Jil Sander, or even, finding themselves with similar needs regarding the clothes they need to wear as the woman that Jil herself used to dress. A lot of designers have done frayed edges this season and I am clearly seeing very little wear for that in office situations, for which successful working women (let's face it that the pricepoint allow for such an assumption) have for many years turned to Jil Sander.

I am definitely not a Jil Sander customer (not by choice ) nor do I fall into the segment of ppl. who are buying or have bought JS in the past, for that matter. However, Raf's Jil Sander is definitely much too stylized for the essential Jil Sander customer. From an aesthetic point of view, a lot of his work for JS has been admirable and incredibly beautiful but I can never quite understand who the Jil Sander customer is these days. A lot of the pieces, while beautiful, seem very 'of the moment', imo. Original JS was about classic, wearable pieces with subtle twists - minimalism, basically.

I don't really see the Helmut Lang connection in Raf's work for JS. While Lang's work was not as subtle as Jil Sander's work, I could definitely see the same customer opting to wear both designers. Both have a singular refinement and sense of timelessness that goes beyond just the clothes, imo. With much respect to Raf, I think his designs for Jil Sander are lacking in timelessness. When he goes for the minimalism JS is known for it kinda falls flat for me, personally... too one-dimensional, maybe? And when he takes the road least traveled - like this collection or s/s 08 (which I loved, btw), while it is amazing to look @ it, I just can't see it standing as a classic staple in someone's wardrobe, especially the wardrobe of a person who is likely to purchase Jil sander in the first place.

I am hoping Raf will eventually find his legs @ Jil Sander. He has yet to acquire a middle ground between himself and the Jil Sander aesthetic.

 

[gius]

Jil Sander herself doesn't always create clothes like you guys mention doesn't she? I remember S/S '04 and '05 quite different from your usual office clothes... although I read she quit right after this.

 

[wheneveriwakeup]

Jil Sander's comeback collections were some of my favorites... truly sublime, esp. s/s 2004.

Back on topic -
Those two collections, imo, are in the same vein as the typical Jil Sander aesthetic. They're just a bit lighter and fluid to suit seasonal changes. I wouldn't call anything she designed 'office clothes', really. The idea of 'office clothes' is purely subjective though as there are many types of professional/work environments. However, one of the driving forces behind Jil Sander's aesthetic was her ability to suit the needs of many different women while still staying true to her vision and never compromising her aesthetic, even after she joined ranks with Prada. Jil Sander was the go-to designer for classic pieces that could be paired with esoteric statement pieces from Yohji, CDG, Junya, Chalayan, Lang, etc., imo. Her designs truly served their purpose and were great investment pieces b/c they are so versatile. That is all due to a sense of wearability and functionality as well as timelessness. I don't think Raf has quite grasped that concept yet. If he were designing a lot of what he has done for JS under his own name, it would make a lot more sense. But b/c he is designing for Jil Sander, it is necessary that he design in that realm and still infuse each collection with his own vision as well. Right now, it seems that he is in limbo most of the time. A beautiful limbo, nonetheless.

 

[Miss Galliano]

beautiful collection !
thanxxx raf Simons
I am a fan !

 

[Dkammern]

I really wonder how many people on fashion spot praising this collection find themselves in the situation to be actual customers of Jil Sander, or even, finding themselves with similar needs regarding the clothes they need to wear as the woman that Jil herself used to dress. A lot of designers have done frayed edges this season and I am clearly seeing very little wear for that in office situations, for which successful working women (let's face it that the pricepoint allow for such an assumption) have for many years turned to Jil Sander.

this "are you an actual client" seems to be a recurring topic. i've seen it here, in past YSL collections, and i truly can't see the reason or use of it.
it's not like we are commenting on the performance of cars we havent driven, or equations we can't solve.
As much as it is an industry, fashion is also a creative field. Luckily that opens the doors of criticism to pretty much everyone (otherwise imagine tFS with just the models, mags, and celebrity style threads )
are there many/any couture clients around here? no, but we do "waste" hours of our sleep until the pictures come up, like there's no tomorrow, right?
it's as easy as stating your opinion, supporting it (we've all done the "I LOOOVE THIS BECAUSE IT'S SO PRETTY!" here and there, but that's not what i am talking about)

besides that, if your main argument is that jil sander is/was always designed for a certain kind of client who would find herself in "office situations", i think we've seen enough Dior runway monstrosities toned down for the racks, to think that any given collection could eventually get to the stores in a similar manner, no?
take the high slit coat for example... it looks fantastic on the runway with or without the cut. perfectly office-like to me, how you wear it is up to you.

 

[tricotineacetat]

this "are you an actual client" seems to be a recurring topic. i've seen it here, in past YSL collections, and i truly can't see the reason or use of it.
it's not like we are commenting on the performance of cars we havent driven, or equations we can't solve.
As much as it is an industry, fashion is also a creative field. Luckily that opens the doors of criticism to pretty much everyone (otherwise imagine tFS with just the models, mags, and celebrity style threads )
are there many/any couture clients around here? no, but we do "waste" hours of our sleep until the pictures come up, like there's no tomorrow, right?
it's as easy as stating your opinion, supporting it (we've all done the "I LOOOVE THIS BECAUSE IT'S SO PRETTY!" here and there, but that's not what i am talking about)

besides that, if your main argument is that jil sander is/was always designed for a certain kind of client who would find herself in "office situations", i think we've seen enough Dior runway monstrosities toned down for the racks, to think that any given collection could eventually get to the stores in a similar manner, no?
take the high slit coat for example... it looks fantastic on the runway with or without the cut. perfectly office-like to me, how you wear it is up to you.

You might have forgotten then that fashion is, first and foremost, an industry build around the commerce of clothing that people buy and wear. What might work for someone like Gareth Pugh, to produce collections simply for the sake of arts appreciation does not in whatever way work for a globally-operating house like Jil Sander... but I'll spare you the boring details of this point of view. I don't see much reason to further argue with Alexander Wang's faithful fanbase at tFS about the lack of real design, what gives him right and a clear raison d'etre beyond anyone's argument is that the very people that praise his designs in here also happen to be the ones buying into his proposition of t-shirt dressing and somewhat thrown-together grunge aesthetic.

I think it would be very helpful to mention the recently published article on Jil Sander's new venture with Uniqlo, from which one can get a very good idea of her original, very pragmatic design approach - and even though her actual clothes can be regarded as being minimalistic by design, there is an essence of ease and sensuality that I am thinking is missing in Raf Simons' collections for the house. It's interesting to put his latest collection in direct comparison with the two summer collections Jil herself designed during the brief return as the creative director of the house she founded, which also featured slight touches of frayed edges and an altogether more 'loose' feel - In the end, what she managed to give her audience were very easy, uncontrived clothes, such as the before mentioned dress Softgrey has (Maybe it would be good to post a picture as a reminder?). I've mentioned it before, but I'm finding Raf Simons' approach at Jil Sander often to be a bit too much on the 'studied' overtly-conceptualized side, portraying an 'art-house', monastic, Kraftwerk-like sense of minimalism for the sake of arts appreciation, unlike the 'private' luxury that Jil Sander's own creations always exuded.

 

[Pastry]

^ as a young man, a newcomer to the world of fashion, the f/w 2004 and the s/s 2005 Jil Sander collections remain, for me, a benchmark of exceptional apparel design. It's always a pleasure to look back to them.

And softgrey, I'd love to see the dress.

 

[wheneveriwakeup]

I don't think one has to actually purchase/wear Jil Sander, or any designer for that matter, in order to judge a collection from a business/monetary point of view. If anything, I think it's important to view collections from every point of view possible - that of a buyer, that of a customer, that of a detractor, that of a stylist, and that of an enthusiast. It allows the mind to form a subjective opinion that expands beyond "I don't like, I like it" and it also allows one understand the purpose of the collection as a whole, the individual pieces w/i the collection, the identity of the brand and the p.o.v. of the designer.

 

[gius]

....
It's interesting to put his latest collection in direct comparison with the two summer collections Jil herself designed during the brief return as the creative director of the house she founded, which also featured slight touches of frayed edges and an altogether more 'loose' feel - In the end, what she managed to give her audience were very easy, uncontrived clothes, such as the before mentioned dress Softgrey has (Maybe it would be good to post a picture as a reminder?). I've mentioned it before, but I'm finding Raf Simons' approach at Jil Sander often to be a bit too much on the 'studied' overtly-conceptualized side, portraying an 'art-house', monastic, Kraftwerk-like sense of minimalism for the sake of arts appreciation, unlike the 'private' luxury that Jil Sander's own creations always exuded.

Here's one look from S/S '04

style.com

 

[mikeijames]

there's no better time for tom ford to start doing womenswear again, i'll tell you. it's clear to me that raf simons has taken on a lover. after that utterly sensual menswear presentation this summer with those positively scandalous foujita prints used as an inspiration point, i had a feeling he'd go with something even more upfront in terms of sexuality in his womenswear presentation. it's almost as if this uptight woman has found herself in the throws of a torrid affair that results in a skirt ripped here and a dress torn apart there. the sex drips from this collection in an intellectual way we found lacking at prada this season. and while prada, fendi, and many others dabbled in deconstruction and transperancy this season, this presented us with the most real and down-to-earth -- literally in the case of the film playing during this show -- version of it.

raf simons is no fool. the writing's on the wall. with houses like balmain selling out, houses like pucci springing to life, and sex crazed houses like versace flying above it all, sex is back. it's clear that women have less to spend in this economy, so guess what, they might still have to spring for a power suit for that big presentation, but they're going to make it sexier than they might have because they can. that's what's going to get them to spend. as anna della russo said, "it's about generating those butterflies" and this collection did just that.